Achilles is more straightforward strength and classic virtues while Odysseus represents a more shady and craftiness which is noble in its own right. Will recommend HippiasMinor again.
Read a oxford book on Homer that mentioned the greeks taking Odysseus as the true hero, as that shady crafty cunning was closer to Godhood than strength and physicality. Always thought that was true, that between Achilies and Odysseus, the latter had the more heroic life, the more interesting life, and overall a closer ideal to manhood than Achilies, who occupies a more tragic, less well-rounded figure.
Read a oxford book on Homer that mentioned the greeks taking Odysseus as the true hero, as that shady crafty cunning was closer to Godhood than strength and physicality. Always thought that was true, that between Achilies and Odysseus, the latter had the more heroic life, the more interesting life, and overall a closer ideal to manhood than Achilies, who occupies a more tragic, less well-rounded figure.
I am always confused by how the Greeks and the Romans viewed these types of heros. It seems like they valued honesty but they also revere men like Odysseus and Romulus who succeed by lying and tricking people.
The question is subject to the presuppositions of the audience. Strength and cunning mean different things to different people and the scope of what these things mean can vary wildly. You posted Heracles so based on the general vibe I get here I would also say Odysseus is the classic exemplar of both.
If you go by “cunning” the king who gave him the 12 labors and made him be the slave of the Lydian queen would also count though hero is debatable. It shows how language loses its meaning the more you toy with it.
— PRINCE HAL
His dissolute behaviour is all a calculated subterfuge, but when it comes to vaulting onto his horse in full armour & fighting Hotspur, he gets the job done.
— SHERLOCK HOLMES
Mostly his intelligence is just straightfoward problem-solving, which isn't really "cunning". But he does go in for disguises, which has the right vibe. And he's strong enough to e.g. straighten the poker that Dr. Roylott bends to intimidate him in The Speckled Band.
— LAZARUS LONG
All R.A.H. heroes combine strength and guile (because they're all the same dude, pretty much).
— RANDLE MCMURPHY
It's mostly a battle of wits vs. Nurse Ratched, but he's a brawler too (remember how he intimidates the gas station guy on the fishing trip by showing his hands).
Umm, Odysseus?
Do you have anything a bit more obscure?
No.
Achilles is more straightforward strength and classic virtues while Odysseus represents a more shady and craftiness which is noble in its own right. Will recommend HippiasMinor again.
Read a oxford book on Homer that mentioned the greeks taking Odysseus as the true hero, as that shady crafty cunning was closer to Godhood than strength and physicality. Always thought that was true, that between Achilies and Odysseus, the latter had the more heroic life, the more interesting life, and overall a closer ideal to manhood than Achilies, who occupies a more tragic, less well-rounded figure.
>Read a oxford book
I am always confused by how the Greeks and the Romans viewed these types of heros. It seems like they valued honesty but they also revere men like Odysseus and Romulus who succeed by lying and tricking people.
The question is subject to the presuppositions of the audience. Strength and cunning mean different things to different people and the scope of what these things mean can vary wildly. You posted Heracles so based on the general vibe I get here I would also say Odysseus is the classic exemplar of both.
If you go by “cunning” the king who gave him the 12 labors and made him be the slave of the Lydian queen would also count though hero is debatable. It shows how language loses its meaning the more you toy with it.
How bout David?
Bane
Reynard the Fox
— PRINCE HAL
His dissolute behaviour is all a calculated subterfuge, but when it comes to vaulting onto his horse in full armour & fighting Hotspur, he gets the job done.
— SHERLOCK HOLMES
Mostly his intelligence is just straightfoward problem-solving, which isn't really "cunning". But he does go in for disguises, which has the right vibe. And he's strong enough to e.g. straighten the poker that Dr. Roylott bends to intimidate him in The Speckled Band.
— LAZARUS LONG
All R.A.H. heroes combine strength and guile (because they're all the same dude, pretty much).
— RANDLE MCMURPHY
It's mostly a battle of wits vs. Nurse Ratched, but he's a brawler too (remember how he intimidates the gas station guy on the fishing trip by showing his hands).
Simplicissimus, the German Adventurer
frickin' Obelix and Asterix, respectively
Why do all the greek idol statues look like some fricking mma chechen? Weren't they white? Ffs.