Most of the Chinese dynasties were very centralized, why didn't they assimilate the minorities?
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Most of the Chinese dynasties were very centralized, why didn't they assimilate the minorities?
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>why didn't they assimilate the minorities?
they did, that's why the dialects come from chinese and the people living there are chinese
>Most Chinese dynasties were centralized
They weren't. They spread a uniform governing system and written language, but other than that the affairs of one province had very little to do with the affairs of another. There was the saying that 'The mountains are high and the Emperor is far away'.
China saw it's identity in the civilization, not the nationality, so language speaking autism was never extreme.
So, you are saying, the Chinese governors had more common with the satraps than the Roman governors?
A little bit more centralized than that.
Yes and no.
The Chinese see society as made up of nodes that link together via various relationships. However, the relationships are where the ontological foundation comes from, not the nodes. A man with no relationships is less real than a man with many. The result of this is that there isn't really an impetus to enforce a standardized language at the expense of others. Why? Because speaking to your boss in Mandarin is one kind of relationship, but speaking to him in Yue is another. In Mandarin, you might kowtow and defer and suck hsi wiener, but in Yue you'll be honest. These are tools, and you want many in your toolbox.
China has always had a court language, it's just that China has never had a reason to prevent people from speaking local gobbledeasiatic. This is heightened by the fact that, in order to ensure loyalty, provinces were never governed by the locals, but villages were governed by village elders. Thus, dialects are actually a source of stability because the locals get what they want (to live however the frick what they want with the government helping solve problems on their terms) and the government gets what it wants (the peasants to pay taxes and not rebel).
The map also is a bit misleading as Mandarin is spoked across the entirety of China, with the only place that it really isn't being patches of Tibet because the Han, like everyone who isn't a fricking Himalayan, cannot live at those altitudes. Rather, the question is "where are dialects spoken, and in what intensities, IN ADDITION to Mandarin".
Honestly this is how most human civilizations have worked. Language autism mostly started up in the 19th century romantic era. Romans didn't give a shit if you spoke Latin or not outside of the court.
>China saw it's identity in the civilization, not the nationality
Wtf does this mean? I'm genuinely at a loss
If you can't understand that, you're too braindead even for IQfy. I recommend you boards like IQfy and /s4s/.
clay pots instead of flags
You know how the world is being Americanized and cares more about US politics instead of domestic ones? Like that.
Basically this
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilization_state
tl;dr China as a state is not based on Nationality nor even ideology as it likes claiming, but based on the civilization their people created and adherence to that civilization.
I'll add that one reason for the dialects, is the expansion of earlier Chinese dynasties into nonChinese land. In particular the homeland of the Thai (now relocated to Siam).
Those "Dai" who stayed home learned Chinese but spoke it bad. Hey presto, pidgin becomes dialect.
It's a biggass country. While most of them eventually speak dialects of Mandarin, the ones who live in the border are usually gravitate further and further from the standard. The same thing happens to any sufficiently old and large country. Even France have a dozen or so dialects
Because China has a frick massive population that’s twice the size of all Europe? Some linguistic branching-off is inevitable.
I’m more surprised there aren’t even more diverse dialects
>I’m more surprised there aren’t even more diverse dialects
There are. The Chinese government calls them dialects but sometimes they are not even directly related to mandarin at all. Many of those are different languages.
Mandarin is not a language, it's a language family
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinitic_languages
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EVEN A FRICKING GOOGLE SEARCH WOYULD HAVE DONE YOU SOME GOOD BUT YOU JUST CANT RESIST
Taiwan should diverge their language through pronunciation reform if they were smart.
This map is pretty outdated at this point. mandarin is the main language in shenzhen for example, manchu is all gone and jinyu doesnt spread that far
The nature of the Chinese writing system makes it so peasants can communicate with eachother without speaking the same language. Because of this, linguistic assimilation was never necessary.
Most Chinese peasants were illiterate. Most peasants around the world were illiterate as well.
The peasants don't matter. If the literati and well to do learn the proper vernacular then the peasants will follow suit.
Then why the frick did you say:
>The nature of the Chinese writing system makes it so peasants can communicate with eachother without speaking the same language.
If that wasn't you then why'd you reply to me, dumbass.
Because your reply was a non sequitur and that guy was still right
>Most Chinese peasants were illiterate.
True because the Chinese writing system is fricking ridiculous but any peasants that got any sort of savings got that confucian education if at all possible because it was their only hope of advancing their position in society. Besides, it just means that it was whatever minor clerks and government officials in town could communicate through writing if necessary; most peasants would just talk to each other through the language difference since neighboring dialects tended to be similar enough to be mutually intelligible.
>How Europe did it
Force everyone to speak the same language to be able to understand your leader
>How China did it
Develop a writing system that's disconnected from a spoken language
A: They did in the past when wiping out minority cultures was in vogue, that's why most of the languages in the region are of chinese origin now.
B: Having a writing system that let people communicate across language barriers removed a lot of the impetus for tearing down those barriers, which is why the various unintelligible Chinese dialects haven't quite unified, although thanks to mass media the provincial dialects are disappearing, just like the Romance dialect continuum.
The ideographic script circumvented the need to standardize the vernacular. Stupid, I know. If they had a phonetic writing system every part in that map would be speaking the court language.
If they had an alphabet then China would've split into a dozen successor states similar to Rome with French, Romanian and Portuguese.
Branching languages didn't lead to political fragmentation, it was the other way around. If the Roman state survive and kept Europe united, then Catalan, Italian, Romanian, etc. would all just be considered dialects of the same "language". The only reason Norwegian and Danish are considered separate languages is because of their separate national identities.
Because the minority ruled the majority.
OK Antimajoosunit, very cool
The Qing dynasty was founded in the 1600s
pajeet
I hate chinks
Want a cookie, you weird little chud?
It’s not a chud, it’s a seething midget shitskin poo that spams anti China shit in every Asian thread for some reason
You're a paranoid sperg. Most Indians don't care about spamming anti-China posts on the internet, they often praise China for how quickly it went from having one of the lowest GDPs to the second highest in the world and attack Indian politicians for not being as good as the CCP.
The ones spamming anti-China posts are Wignats such as yourself.
Seethe
Lol ok calm down raj
cause there's like a billion ching chong chinamen
Why are there dozens of stupid Latin dialects?
Because the Roman Empire hasn't existed for one and a half millenia while china is one country
The roman empire hasnt existed for like 600 years moron. Not 1500.
if he wants to terminate the roman empire at the time it split to east and west, he can go right ahead. don't call him a moron because you are ignorant or have a preference to end it later, anon
Soon Spanish will become its own language family.
What do people usually speak in Taiwan?
mandari- wait a second, are you trying to trick me, xi?
I see a lot of people in here arguing about dialects and languages
Just a reminder that the term "dialect" is heavily politicized. Someone who is drunk on fascism and wants to unify two or more similar languages into one will call those "dialects" (see Turks, Kurds, Japs, Arabs, Anglos). Meanwhile someone who wants to balkanize a region will call those similar languages "different languages".
And what is the objective truth?
Different languages >>>> Dialects.
Why do so many sperges claim Japanese regions had wildly divergent dialects and Meiji some how eradicated them all overnight? The "dialects" existed as they do now, as extremely minor variances (kansai ben, etcetera)
nowit: japanese has always been one culture
midwit: japan was wildly divergent before meiji
highwit: japan has always had inconsequential regional differences
>extremely minor
top kek
try talking to someone from kyushu or tohoku in their local dialect mr. big brain and tell me how that works for you. I think people somewhat try to overplay it to make it a parallel to the situation in China where they artificially lump a bunch of languages together as dialects for political reasons, but don't go too far and minimize the divergences in traditional dialects.
Well there's also the problem that nowadays you get dialects of the standard language that only retain a few aspects of the old dialect.
a good example of the dude you replied tos point would be the Ryukuan languages (NOT the dialect of standard Japanese spoken there) which were classified as dialects of Japanese despite the fact that they are not mutually intelligible by any means and are better described as cousin languages.
that map is moronic, like Inner Mongolia is 70-75% ethnically Han Chinese
it's useful in the sense of having an idea of where those non-Mandarin languages were spoken but it's in no way reflective of the situation on the ground
Holoscots never forget
Europe was exactly the same until the availability of transport made it a problem.
When you have peasants who don't move and some local gentry who can speak to them it makes no difference.
But once you get all the people walking into cities speaking random tiny dialects (with typical comprehensibility ranging from Glaswegian to Faroese) you have a problem, the typical solution was to pick whatever the nobility spoke and teach it as the only correct version.
>Faroese
Frisian
>why is china stupid
ah, I will never tire of this question. essentially it is because of their dna, but go ahead fellas show me the history
>Manchu
>Visible in the Map
Literally only 15 or 20 fricking people- all Chinese linguistic professors- speak Manchu nowadays.
The 15 million Manchu population are all Mandarin Speakers of the Dongbei Dialects.
are you chinese bro?
JUST
Shandongers are Manchurian
All ethnic Tungusic peoples are of 100% Shandong descent.
All Tungusic, Japonic and Korean peoples orignated from SHANDONG
Hello brit shandonger schizo
How can we use this too balkanize chynah
>Most of the Chinese dynasties were very centralized
Nope.
>Han Chinese
Meme ethnicity. It's the same as "roman", even though both a celt from briton and some shitskinned nafri could be called as such.