Whelp, installed the Xfce desktop and it didn't even come with a fricking web browser. Not even Lynx/Links(2). I was hoping for Iceweasel or librewolf, something.
How do youfrick up that badly.
A package manager and service manager configured in Scheme seems fun but making it extra difficult to find and install properietary software, especially in terms of hardware drivers seems obnoxious.
I don't really care about the F.S.F.'s theoretical definitions of freedom that literally mean that disabling a microcontroller on some piece of hardware so that the drivers can't be updated at all any more makes it more free; I care about practical freedom that works for me, as in: making it as easy as possible for me to make my system do what I want.
To that end, I will take closed source software with strong configuration options over free software that requires one to edit the source to make it do what one wants. I do run custom patched software on my system, but that's a last resort, I'd rather edit a configuration file before I have to resort to that.
This makes no sense, they're both as expressive as the other and neither are a “model of how computation works”. They're both simply able to compute anything that can be computed, it seems.
I would just like to interject, the attitude in the Guix standard distribution torwards properietary software doesnt just seem obnoxious - it is obnoxious. The hurdles of installing the Guix system on the vast majority of hardware is a serious impediment to its adoption, even amongst seasoned techies.
However, I would argue that this obnoxiousness is well-intentioned, and necessary. One of the goals for the development of GNU Guix is the enablement of the full-source bootstrap of software. Bundling closed source binary blobs in the standard distribution of Guix is in direct opposition to these goals.
I'm considering it. Does nonguix run okay on crappy laptops?
Yes, but make sure to read the entirety of the nonguix README, particularly the section on adding their substitution server, otherwise you'll be stuck waiting around for the kernel to build on your crappy machine.
Adding a substitution server enables significant speedup using the tried-and-true method of getting the results of a computation rather than running the computation yourself. In other words, it fetches packages from an external server rather than building the package itself. Y
Well I think their goals are simply dumb.
The F.S.F.'s interpretation of “freedom” is as said an entirely theoretical definition that in many cases takes practical freedom away from the user like the r.o.m. situation. By their definition of “freedom” proprietary blobs burned in r.o.m. are “free” on the argument that since they can't ever be replaced they are no longer software, but hardware. Even though the exact same code is still running in it, it suddenly becomes nonfree by putting it in r.w.m., where it can now be replaced by a different piece of software by the user.
There was actually one case where a notebook got the “respect your freedom mark” from the F.S.F. simply by destroying a microctroller manually on the motherboard that now turned writable memory read-only and made a proprietary blob needed to make the thing function “part of the hardware” in the F.S.F.'s definition and thus now “free”. That's obviously inane that it now “respects your freedom” more when they remove the ability to replace the software? Of course, anyone can repair that microcontroller and apparently in the F.S.F's eyes now make their machine ”nonfree”.
They're living so much in theoretical definitions that they lost track of accomplishing meaningful goals that actually benefit people or of course the stuff that GrSecurity does which still makes them “free software” by the F.S.F.'s definition for some reason even though they used weird legal loopholes to for practical purposes close up their source
2 months ago
Anonymous
>wake up for my job at the fsf plant >first order of business is to put stickers on stuff >second order is to answer emails from IQfyerald about his laptop (he's in university and can post a lot more than I can, so I'll message him to be my little freedom deputy) >third order is to attend the weekly psyop meeting for our revolutionary indoctrination phase 1337
Do you see how fricking ignorant you are of the entire point?
2 months ago
Anonymous
If I were then I'm sure you'd be able to point out a factual inaccuracy to anything I said.
becuase i fricking love gentoo. its so easy to write patches and create local repositories. it just works. everything is like how i want it to be. honestly, how gentoo just gets out of your way nd lets you do whatever it wants makes every other loonix distro so restrictive. gentoo is fun. can guix do the same and more? if it does the ssame things i mentioned then theres no point in me using it. if it does more, itll be too much work to set everything up again.
I had Guix installed on top of my Debian base system, but it broke my Debian so I had to uninstall Guix.
As it turns out, mixing two stable systems doesn't necessarily result in a stable system.
Nvidia drivers still suck, for gaming that is. Desktop is okay.
I used it for a month, and was constantly juggling games that ran half okay, graphic glitches and the like. Performance was good however. Not sure if it was my gtx1080 and the drivers being not good for it, but frick it. I'll regrettably stay on Windows until I can buy an AMD card or just a new box.
I'm not ready to give up gaming just yet, it's still my preferred form of escaping the constant dread of life.
I just cant imagine leaving debian at this point. Every now and then I spin up a dual boot on a second hard drive, and I give it an honest try. I try various distros, desktop environments, i install all the drivers, i log into all my stuff to really give it a fair shot for a daily use system... and i always come crawling back to Debian. It's never done me wrong.
KDE 5.27.7, GNOME 42.4, Blender 3.3.5 - this is literally worse than Debian Stable. Yes, I must updoot. And I won't use a distro that doesn't allow me to updoot.
Guix's home-environment just isn't on par with home-manager. I configure basically everything with home-manager if possible. Flakes also make managing different shells/packages/configs/modules really easy once you figure them out and allow for a lot of reusability. As far as I've heard Guix doesn't have any direct equivalent.
you also use wrapFirefox for librewolf (you might need to pass
libName = "librewolf";
to the arguments, idk. Last time I tried it without that extra argument the extra sideloaded extensions didn't work, but I haven't gone back to using librewolf since that moment yet.
because of it stance to proprietary stuff, making it using proprietary stuff hard just for the sake of it. other than that, it's a better os that nixos and i would actually use it if not that.
I take basically the opposite approach for desktop/laptop distros and use Fedora Kinoite. It's super duper stable but I still get quick updates and can upgrade between releases without breaking anything. I might look at Guix in a VM later.
For 99% of desktop users, myself included (and most probably (You) as well), Guix and NixOS are just an additional layer of bullshit that provides no concrete advantage.
For the time being, Debian just works, despite some minor flaws.
This is kind of something I noticed since I tried Idris.
That a lot of those projects which offer a degree of theoretical perfection in practice don't really matter and simply are unwieldy to use.
I remember reading a comment somewhere that said that the big result of the Idris experiment with dependent typing was that it showed that it wasn't worth the effort and that in practice programs aren't more free of bugs than in Haskell for a lot more effort and time.
In practice it's similarly declarative. There's a file with “selected” packages and another with use flags though I wish that file were merged I guess and the system figures out the other dependencies itself.
If anything Guix and Nix take more effort and time to configure. Their configuration languages are seriously verbose.
2 months ago
Anonymous
>I don't really feel it with Portage.
Circular dependency hell is a real problem in Gentoo though.
2 months ago
Anonymous
Oh yeah that sometimes happens but that's a bug in the dependencies I'd say.
The solution in practice is unironicaly to simply delete one of them and then do the update and then it suddenly works and it re-installs them.
GNU claims GNOME is part of the GNU project.
The GNOME website does not mention the GNU anywhere and when you ask developers they give a really vague answer about whether they still answer to GNU.
I think Red Hat successfully did a hostile takeover which it often does. They answer to Red Hat now.
Installation was a nightmare
Everything was broken until I fixed it or failed
Building everything from source isn't actually good if it's the only option
Lisp isn't actually a very good language when you're forced to use it
Fricking icecat is literally years out of date
The whole premise of condensing all your configuration to a single file isn't actually any good in practice. Nothing has been designed to make that easy, nor should it be. Manually copy pasting config files blows guix out of the water in terms of time and reliability
t. Someone who wasted an inordinate amount of time on guix. I even got it to run Wayland when that wasn't (maybe still isn't) an easy thing to do
Just to hammer the point home, I had to leave my laptop connected via dongles to ethernet in a utility room overnight multiple times just hoping that no errors would interrupt it *this time* because building an install from source takes hours and requires an internet connection, and no, of course wifi doesn't work out of the box
Yeah, you're a fricking moron, don't know what you're talking about, and people who spend two seconds getting into it will never have your experience, so I don't have to clarify anything but the fact that you're a lying dipshit.
Despite being a FSDG compliant GNU/Linux distribution, Guix ships many packages with freedom issues such as the ungoogled-chromium package, which despite being ungoogled in name, has many freedom and license flaws and its usage is discouraged by the Free Software Foundation (see https://labs(.)parabola(.)nu/issues/140). Their version of GNU Icecat is also months behind Firefox, and presents major security flaws. Due to these freedom and security issues, I decided to use Parabola GNU/Linux-libre.
I'm happy with debian
okay fair enough, Debian is one comfy distro
you can use guix in debian
I'm white and I'm using white man's OS - Windows 10.
Sorry, I meant Windows 7.
found proprietard who's time and effort is worthless
good morning sir
Good morning to you sir!
I'll give it another try. The last time I looked at it, many years ago, it wasn't really useful.
Your brain is smooth and poop colored, though.
Whelp, installed the Xfce desktop and it didn't even come with a fricking web browser. Not even Lynx/Links(2). I was hoping for Iceweasel or librewolf, something.
How do youfrick up that badly.
Including a browser is bloat, just install one with the package manager bro.
I'm stuck with zypper
zypper stuck? Sounds painful, better get a doctor to look at it.
windows just works.
switch to arch
Why?
because i'm not a gnu/lincel whose time is worthless
>those thin pencil arms
kek, let me guess, exercise is a waste of time too
I want less GNU in my Linux, not more.
GNG is Not GNG is Not GNG is Not GNG
i is
i'm already familiar with nix and i assume working with shepherd would be more work than systemd for managing servers
Its features don't interest me
The packages I have to work with are all optimized around Debian
I'm a btcoinlet.
https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/tree/master/contrib/guix
I'm happy with Artix
Because Gentoo is better and I hate pure functional languages. Lambda calculus alone is an extremely poor model of how computers actually work.
Cope harder turinggay
Lambda calculus won
wake me up when applying a single patch doesn't require 40 lines of boilerplate schemeshit
A package manager and service manager configured in Scheme seems fun but making it extra difficult to find and install properietary software, especially in terms of hardware drivers seems obnoxious.
I don't really care about the F.S.F.'s theoretical definitions of freedom that literally mean that disabling a microcontroller on some piece of hardware so that the drivers can't be updated at all any more makes it more free; I care about practical freedom that works for me, as in: making it as easy as possible for me to make my system do what I want.
To that end, I will take closed source software with strong configuration options over free software that requires one to edit the source to make it do what one wants. I do run custom patched software on my system, but that's a last resort, I'd rather edit a configuration file before I have to resort to that.
This makes no sense, they're both as expressive as the other and neither are a “model of how computation works”. They're both simply able to compute anything that can be computed, it seems.
I would just like to interject, the attitude in the Guix standard distribution torwards properietary software doesnt just seem obnoxious - it is obnoxious. The hurdles of installing the Guix system on the vast majority of hardware is a serious impediment to its adoption, even amongst seasoned techies.
However, I would argue that this obnoxiousness is well-intentioned, and necessary. One of the goals for the development of GNU Guix is the enablement of the full-source bootstrap of software. Bundling closed source binary blobs in the standard distribution of Guix is in direct opposition to these goals.
Yes, but make sure to read the entirety of the nonguix README, particularly the section on adding their substitution server, otherwise you'll be stuck waiting around for the kernel to build on your crappy machine.
Adding a substitution server enables significant speedup using the tried-and-true method of getting the results of a computation rather than running the computation yourself. In other words, it fetches packages from an external server rather than building the package itself. Y
Well I think their goals are simply dumb.
The F.S.F.'s interpretation of “freedom” is as said an entirely theoretical definition that in many cases takes practical freedom away from the user like the r.o.m. situation. By their definition of “freedom” proprietary blobs burned in r.o.m. are “free” on the argument that since they can't ever be replaced they are no longer software, but hardware. Even though the exact same code is still running in it, it suddenly becomes nonfree by putting it in r.w.m., where it can now be replaced by a different piece of software by the user.
There was actually one case where a notebook got the “respect your freedom mark” from the F.S.F. simply by destroying a microctroller manually on the motherboard that now turned writable memory read-only and made a proprietary blob needed to make the thing function “part of the hardware” in the F.S.F.'s definition and thus now “free”. That's obviously inane that it now “respects your freedom” more when they remove the ability to replace the software? Of course, anyone can repair that microcontroller and apparently in the F.S.F's eyes now make their machine ”nonfree”.
They're living so much in theoretical definitions that they lost track of accomplishing meaningful goals that actually benefit people or of course the stuff that GrSecurity does which still makes them “free software” by the F.S.F.'s definition for some reason even though they used weird legal loopholes to for practical purposes close up their source
>wake up for my job at the fsf plant
>first order of business is to put stickers on stuff
>second order is to answer emails from IQfyerald about his laptop (he's in university and can post a lot more than I can, so I'll message him to be my little freedom deputy)
>third order is to attend the weekly psyop meeting for our revolutionary indoctrination phase 1337
Do you see how fricking ignorant you are of the entire point?
If I were then I'm sure you'd be able to point out a factual inaccuracy to anything I said.
Already did.
Because lisp is shit, I want a woking computer and Arch works the way I like my OS to work.
Could somebody tell me why I would prefer Guix over Nix? Other than the usage of scheme and stricter policy torwards non-foss packages?
Because Nix doesn't have a package manager while Guix does.
Elaborate
nix has fresher packages but i might try it on my laptop
becuase i fricking love gentoo. its so easy to write patches and create local repositories. it just works. everything is like how i want it to be. honestly, how gentoo just gets out of your way nd lets you do whatever it wants makes every other loonix distro so restrictive. gentoo is fun. can guix do the same and more? if it does the ssame things i mentioned then theres no point in me using it. if it does more, itll be too much work to set everything up again.
cause im using nixos, i respect the idea, but yall unpractical with your hard stance. maybe once i wont need to wageslave anymore ill check it out.
I had Guix installed on top of my Debian base system, but it broke my Debian so I had to uninstall Guix.
As it turns out, mixing two stable systems doesn't necessarily result in a stable system.
The presence of lisp or any of its derivatives in a project is one of the most reliable red flags in existence.
I don’t even need to use it to know it’s a complete shit show.
Give me 5 good reasons to use it and i will install it in a VM.
Nvidia drivers still suck, for gaming that is. Desktop is okay.
I used it for a month, and was constantly juggling games that ran half okay, graphic glitches and the like. Performance was good however. Not sure if it was my gtx1080 and the drivers being not good for it, but frick it. I'll regrettably stay on Windows until I can buy an AMD card or just a new box.
I'm not ready to give up gaming just yet, it's still my preferred form of escaping the constant dread of life.
I've been using Mint for simple use for my family along with Nix at times but I am willing to try just give me reasons why, also Rika from WE is based
Wonder Egg Breeding
I use NixOS.
I just cant imagine leaving debian at this point. Every now and then I spin up a dual boot on a second hard drive, and I give it an honest try. I try various distros, desktop environments, i install all the drivers, i log into all my stuff to really give it a fair shot for a daily use system... and i always come crawling back to Debian. It's never done me wrong.
Because Kubuntu just werks and I don't want to change.
I like how we were in the same thread at the same time back in 2021. What are the odds of that?
I'm surprised to see my gifs reposted.
The installation filtered me
i want to like it. i want to like emacs, but lisp is the worst
KDE 5.27.7, GNOME 42.4, Blender 3.3.5 - this is literally worse than Debian Stable. Yes, I must updoot. And I won't use a distro that doesn't allow me to updoot.
Guix's home-environment just isn't on par with home-manager. I configure basically everything with home-manager if possible. Flakes also make managing different shells/packages/configs/modules really easy once you figure them out and allow for a lot of reusability. As far as I've heard Guix doesn't have any direct equivalent.
How do I declare librewolf extensions then? I've looked around but there's no way to do something like wrapLibrewolf.
you also use wrapFirefox for librewolf (you might need to pass
libName = "librewolf";
to the arguments, idk. Last time I tried it without that extra argument the extra sideloaded extensions didn't work, but I haven't gone back to using librewolf since that moment yet.
I used slackware and now i use xubuntu lts, to be honest, i stopped caring about OSes a long time ago
Arch works fine, don't need anything else.
will i be able to develop with java seenlessely on guix?
because of it stance to proprietary stuff, making it using proprietary stuff hard just for the sake of it. other than that, it's a better os that nixos and i would actually use it if not that.
no cad software
>freecad
Arch Linux is enough for me.
Tried it and got an error before install saying that my wifi chips on 2 computer are proprietary and cannot use
I take basically the opposite approach for desktop/laptop distros and use Fedora Kinoite. It's super duper stable but I still get quick updates and can upgrade between releases without breaking anything. I might look at Guix in a VM later.
I use it with Arch right now.
I wanted to kill myself after using that.
It's one of the worst install experiences I've ever had. Even Arch fatsos got it right / better
I'm considering it. Does nonguix run okay on crappy laptops?
I'm not trans, I'm sorry OP
Yeah, you're a homosexual.
For 99% of desktop users, myself included (and most probably (You) as well), Guix and NixOS are just an additional layer of bullshit that provides no concrete advantage.
For the time being, Debian just works, despite some minor flaws.
This is kind of something I noticed since I tried Idris.
That a lot of those projects which offer a degree of theoretical perfection in practice don't really matter and simply are unwieldy to use.
I remember reading a comment somewhere that said that the big result of the Idris experiment with dependent typing was that it showed that it wasn't worth the effort and that in practice programs aren't more free of bugs than in Haskell for a lot more effort and time.
Nix and Guix might be overkill but config hell is a very real problem that needs to be addressed.
I don't really feel it with Portage.
In practice it's similarly declarative. There's a file with “selected” packages and another with use flags though I wish that file were merged I guess and the system figures out the other dependencies itself.
If anything Guix and Nix take more effort and time to configure. Their configuration languages are seriously verbose.
>I don't really feel it with Portage.
Circular dependency hell is a real problem in Gentoo though.
Oh yeah that sometimes happens but that's a bug in the dependencies I'd say.
The solution in practice is unironicaly to simply delete one of them and then do the update and then it suddenly works and it re-installs them.
I am, but I can't figure out how to build vkdt in the package manager.
Because I prefer when software just works
I'm not trans
>anti-stallman distro
glibc and gnome are an argument against anythign to do with GNU
GNU claims GNOME is part of the GNU project.
The GNOME website does not mention the GNU anywhere and when you ask developers they give a really vague answer about whether they still answer to GNU.
I think Red Hat successfully did a hostile takeover which it often does. They answer to Red Hat now.
GNU started Gnome, and then Gnome decided to stop being GNU
because it's unreliable, and it's for the weak
mv cp, etc is all you really need, let teh gui plebeians use windows
also, dilate
Installation was a nightmare
Everything was broken until I fixed it or failed
Building everything from source isn't actually good if it's the only option
Lisp isn't actually a very good language when you're forced to use it
Fricking icecat is literally years out of date
The whole premise of condensing all your configuration to a single file isn't actually any good in practice. Nothing has been designed to make that easy, nor should it be. Manually copy pasting config files blows guix out of the water in terms of time and reliability
t. Someone who wasted an inordinate amount of time on guix. I even got it to run Wayland when that wasn't (maybe still isn't) an easy thing to do
Just to hammer the point home, I had to leave my laptop connected via dongles to ethernet in a utility room overnight multiple times just hoping that no errors would interrupt it *this time* because building an install from source takes hours and requires an internet connection, and no, of course wifi doesn't work out of the box
Guix is a dangerous meme
Yeah, you're a fricking moron, don't know what you're talking about, and people who spend two seconds getting into it will never have your experience, so I don't have to clarify anything but the fact that you're a lying dipshit.
Wow are you a fricking lying moron, you just booted the iso blindly.
>why aren't you using GNU Guix yet anon?
completely useless if you install few programs and don't need to develop software with lots of libraries
cuz i've used windows my whole life, frick off arch fanboiz
Despite being a FSDG compliant GNU/Linux distribution, Guix ships many packages with freedom issues such as the ungoogled-chromium package, which despite being ungoogled in name, has many freedom and license flaws and its usage is discouraged by the Free Software Foundation (see https://labs(.)parabola(.)nu/issues/140). Their version of GNU Icecat is also months behind Firefox, and presents major security flaws. Due to these freedom and security issues, I decided to use Parabola GNU/Linux-libre.
because you keep posting chinese cartoons. You ruined it, and it's your fault if GNU guix fails.