Some dead-end Bell Beaker languages that would be incidentally closer to Italic/Celtic than other known IE languages.
Lusitanian and Ligurian, among others, may have been in a similar situation.
There is L21 native to France, but it's not the Celtic signature.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19Gymz7VkuP7OcR8vr5WPjBxtf1Kj2MHRJUWJrMejjCI/edit#gid=0
Majority of Knoviz (pre-Urnfield), Czech, Hungarian and French LaTene samples with sufficient coverage are U152.
1 year ago
Anonymous
I20519 is DF27 from Czech
I19857 and I14861 are DF27 from England
Explain?
1 year ago
Anonymous
No clue about the Czech.
There is atlantic geneflow throughout the bronze age so DF27 in England isn't too surprising.
No, all the early Celts are U152. Check Patterson's paper.
[...]
Because they didn't replace all of the local lineages upon celticization.
Ireland barely changed at all until the historical era.
It's pre-Celtic, not Celtic. Calling it early Celts doesn't make any sense.
>hey guys here's a language family >we could talk about cognates, grammaticalization, proto-Celtic dating and urheimat, even the Italo-Celtic hypothesis >HAHA NOPE >frick linguistics, lets sperg about genetics
it's all so tiresome
>zero z2103
Many M269 (xL51) which are this Armenian shit anyway. >ancient greek
It's the dominant line in modern Magna Graecia so there either was an Armenian rape or it's just from Greeks.
>slavecaste >thor had to disguise himself as a r1 troon like his zoophile uncle Loki just to get close enough to one of them.
I'm sorry but.. r1 is troonclade, it's in the lore.
The same is true for R1a as well, it probably originated in Eastern Europe.
R1b originated in Europe, regardless if they left and came back, which is true for I as well. Doesn't matter what it was before that.
Why do you care at all? Europeans are those who lived there since the Iron Age, not in the Stone Age.
1 year ago
Anonymous
the ural mountains are the border of europe.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Because of the amount of misinformation there is about how these clades originated outsjde of it which is false when looking back to the stone age. As for the others, (E, G, J etc.) they were peripheral at best but I agree the Iron Age is the cutoff anyways.
celtic is a language group, not an ethnic group. the atlantic coast of europe stretching from ireland/scotland down to southern iberia was all interconnected through trade and language, but there were several relatively distinct ethnicities. very similar to each other on the grand scale of the globe though.
Different Bell Beakers cultures evolved isolated from each others but still maintained strong cultural/trading bounds. The irruption of the German cultural element was the greatest destroyer of the Atlantic cultural unity.
Their common ancestor lived at the same time as the ancestor of Z93 (Indians) and Z283 (Slavs).
Celts aren't an actual genetic people, when will people get this. They're a linguistic cultural group. Nobody in Ireland for example was replaced by a bunch of mainland European Celts. They are the same pre-celtic stock that was on the Island for thousands of years.
Celts aren't an actual genetic people, when will people get this. They're a linguistic cultural group. Nobody in Ireland for example was replaced by a bunch of mainland European Celts. They are the same pre-celtic stock that was on the Island for thousands of years.
The Picts were other Beaker peoples so you're wrong.
1 year ago
Anonymous
I'm not referring to the picts. I'm referring to the frickers that were hanging out there over 5k years ago. but yeah the "picts" liked to push around boulders too. scottish people still do weird stuff with rocks and have weird attitudes about them. it's actually something closer to fear and superstition than reverence.
1 year ago
Anonymous
There were replacements from the mainland at least once. The Goidils did the Picts wrong mate
not exactly true about ireland, ireland had a lot of invasion and settlement from scandinavia around 1kya in particular. but the point you are making is true, as scandinavians aren't celtic and their invasions didn't eliminate the celtic stock you are referring to. but there is more scandinavian genetic material in ireland and scotland today than most people realize.
They are defined by polymorphisms that developed recently. There is not rocket science to it
U106 is overwhelmingly from Nord rape.
???
It is a bot.
>"western" europe
>poland is not included while easttugal is
>r1b
>poland
poland's not western europe
It ain't even Central Europe.
Only the blue is a Celtic clade, and there are way more r1b clades than that those are just the most prevalent ones. R1b-U152 is Ligurian for example
No, all the early Celts are U152. Check Patterson's paper.
Because they didn't replace all of the local lineages upon celticization.
Ireland barely changed at all until the historical era.
What languages did the original L21 and DF27 speak?
Some dead-end Bell Beaker languages that would be incidentally closer to Italic/Celtic than other known IE languages.
Lusitanian and Ligurian, among others, may have been in a similar situation.
A lot of DF27 pre-Celtic Iberia was non-IE, too.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Tène_culture#Genetics
>R1b1a1a2a1a2c1a1a1a1a1 (R-M222)
It's L21. Explain pls.
There is L21 native to France, but it's not the Celtic signature.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19Gymz7VkuP7OcR8vr5WPjBxtf1Kj2MHRJUWJrMejjCI/edit#gid=0
Majority of Knoviz (pre-Urnfield), Czech, Hungarian and French LaTene samples with sufficient coverage are U152.
I20519 is DF27 from Czech
I19857 and I14861 are DF27 from England
Explain?
No clue about the Czech.
There is atlantic geneflow throughout the bronze age so DF27 in England isn't too surprising.
>Only the blue is a Celtic clade
Why most of Gauls were U152, why celtiberians were DF27
It's pre-Celtic, not Celtic. Calling it early Celts doesn't make any sense.
>hey guys here's a language family
>we could talk about cognates, grammaticalization, proto-Celtic dating and urheimat, even the Italo-Celtic hypothesis
>HAHA NOPE
>frick linguistics, lets sperg about genetics
it's all so tiresome
it's always like this, every thread will eventually devolve into a sports competition involving haplogroups.
be the change you want to see anon
Why did U106 hate all the other R1bs, historically speaking?
same reason octopus punch fish I figure
Their common ancestor lived at the same time as the ancestor of Z93 (Indians) and Z283 (Slavs).
R1a just feels more pure than R1b, sorry.
There are zero z2103 in ancient greek samples.
It's all R-PF7562.
>zero z2103
Many M269 (xL51) which are this Armenian shit anyway.
>ancient greek
It's the dominant line in modern Magna Graecia so there either was an Armenian rape or it's just from Greeks.
why do Norse myth have 3 distinct founding nationalities?
(r1b, r1a, I1)
I1 were a slavecaste, the beef is between branches of R1 as usual.
>slavecaste
>thor had to disguise himself as a r1 troon like his zoophile uncle Loki just to get close enough to one of them.
I'm sorry but.. r1 is troonclade, it's in the lore.
>meaningless babble
Literally no dynasties with I1 in Europe.
Clan based societies develop clan exclusive lineages whenever one clan us succesful enough to proliferate
R1b originated in Europe, regardless if they left and came back, which is true for I as well. Doesn't matter what it was before that.
The same is true for R1a as well, it probably originated in Eastern Europe.
Why do you care at all? Europeans are those who lived there since the Iron Age, not in the Stone Age.
the ural mountains are the border of europe.
Because of the amount of misinformation there is about how these clades originated outsjde of it which is false when looking back to the stone age. As for the others, (E, G, J etc.) they were peripheral at best but I agree the Iron Age is the cutoff anyways.
celtic is a language group, not an ethnic group. the atlantic coast of europe stretching from ireland/scotland down to southern iberia was all interconnected through trade and language, but there were several relatively distinct ethnicities. very similar to each other on the grand scale of the globe though.
Different Bell Beakers cultures evolved isolated from each others but still maintained strong cultural/trading bounds. The irruption of the German cultural element was the greatest destroyer of the Atlantic cultural unity.
>the German cultural element
See
>aren't an actual genetic people
See
Celts aren't an actual genetic people, when will people get this. They're a linguistic cultural group. Nobody in Ireland for example was replaced by a bunch of mainland European Celts. They are the same pre-celtic stock that was on the Island for thousands of years.
Yeah? And who was living in Ireland and Scotland before the Vascones came? Or elsewhere in the islands even and before the Beakers even?
some dumb weird buttholes that liked to push around rocks and didn't produce enough food for demographic power
The Picts were other Beaker peoples so you're wrong.
I'm not referring to the picts. I'm referring to the frickers that were hanging out there over 5k years ago. but yeah the "picts" liked to push around boulders too. scottish people still do weird stuff with rocks and have weird attitudes about them. it's actually something closer to fear and superstition than reverence.
There were replacements from the mainland at least once. The Goidils did the Picts wrong mate
not exactly true about ireland, ireland had a lot of invasion and settlement from scandinavia around 1kya in particular. but the point you are making is true, as scandinavians aren't celtic and their invasions didn't eliminate the celtic stock you are referring to. but there is more scandinavian genetic material in ireland and scotland today than most people realize.
history didnt begin with the romans