This, I'll never recognised those italianised germino-frankish rape babies as an Italian dynasty.
2 years ago
Anonymous
It's not like your opinion about their legitimacy is important, anyway
still sad we didn't romanov'd them all though
2 years ago
Anonymous
>still sad we didn't romanov'd them all though
Get a load of this homosexual. Italy would have been better off staying a monarchy than having a corrupt cuck republic like the spanish one tried to have.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Studies suggest Sardinians have one of the more unadulterated DNA's in Europe. Italians on the other hand...
>Italians “do not exist”. Only Sardinians are pure-blooded
>The case of Sardinia
As far as regards Sardinia, an interesting aspect of these studies is related to the analysis of isolated populations. “Sardinians,” emphasized Pettener, “differ from all other Italian and European populations. While Sicily has been a hub for all Mediterranean populations, Sardinia preserves the oldest traces, not having suffered invasions, and is differentiated from all European populations, just like the Basques and Lapps.
>Il corriere
AHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHA C'è ancora gente che prende sul serio quel giornale? Leggiti libero a sto punto
2 years ago
Anonymous
>https://www.corriere.it/english/18_maggio_03/italians-do-not-exist-only-sardinians-are-pure-blooded-822d5550-4ee5-11e8-aead-38ee720fad91.shtml
totally not leftist propaganda... Italians do not exist therefore Africans can immigrate there en masse
Nationalism didn't really come into vogue until the mid 19th Century. Before that countries were made purely by the politics of hereditary dynasties which often intermarried for political reasons. As a result rulers were often of a completely different nationality from the people they ruled. The Kindgom of Sardinia for instance wasn't called that because it's the kingdom of the Sardinians, it's just the one that happens to be in Sardinia.
muh "nationalism wasnt created until the 19th century" meme. not sure what your definition of nationalism is but loyalty to your own region (the people living there being related by blood) always existed albeit on a more local level. the idea you should fight and die for people in other cities, polities, and localities thousands of miles away and you should consider them the same community as yours is fairly modern yes.
>the idea you should fight and die for people in other cities, polities, and localities thousands of miles away and you should consider them the same community as yours is fairly modern yes.
And it's and absolutely abhorrent idea that makes every single person who took part in its creation deserve to be tortured to death in ways that would make assyrians and mexican cartels blush
>He defends a revolutionary, modernist, leftwing ideal that destroyed medieval natural order and Christendom and paved the way to this hellish clownworld dystopia we live in nowadays
I think you should be the one to post nose, gay
2 years ago
Anonymous
>he thinks european aristocracy wasn't exactly as israeliteed as modern european governments and israelites love nationalism outside israel
NGMI
This lol. In every age people who left records have shown a form of ethnic awareness and belonging to a distinct group based on their blood and linguistic affinities.
In Italy's case more specifically, that awareness has existed at least since the Late Middle Ages, if not before. Petrarch for example wrote a widely circulated sonnet on Italian national identity in the 1300s. Machiavelli published an essay in the same vein two centuries later.
The USA has no one nation. It is split up amongst many competing ethnicities. Those competing groups lack a common culture, ethnicity, and history. White Americans clearly have different takes on everything from America’s founding to the present day compared to Black Americans, and it shows by the tension it causes.
t. American
I dunno but my dad, who was born in Sardegna, doesn't think of himself or us kids as actual Italians. He still speaks the language which I bairly understand.
Sardinia is part of Italy today because the Sardinia (who was also the king of Piedmont because of ancient political shit) conquered the rest of Italy, with a lot help from Italian nationalists like Garibaldi. It'd be funny for Sardinia just just be like "screw you guys, I'm going home" after that.
>the Sardinia (who was also the king of Piedmont because of ancient political shit) conquered the rest of Italy,
Never happened
It was the other way around
>pic
??? >OK then wtf are you talking about?
Sardinia never fricking conquered the Alps. Sardinia never fricking conquered Italy.
It simply never happened.
Savoy House conquered Italy.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>the king of Sardinia didn't conquer Italy >the house he belonged to did
2 years ago
Anonymous
>the house of Sardinia
???
2 years ago
Anonymous
You have one of the most severe cases of autism I've ever seen.
2 years ago
Anonymous
not an argument
2 years ago
Anonymous
Nothing to argue, if you think belonging to the house of Savoy makes him not the king of Sardinia you must have the particular type of autism that also makes people moronic, there's nothing more to say.
The kingdom of Piedmont/Sardinia was the SAME country.
2 years ago
Anonymous
In 1720, the island was ceded by the Habsburg and Bourbon claimants to the Spanish throne to the Duke of Savoy Victor Amadeus II. The Savoyards united it with their historical possessions on the Italian mainland, and the Kingdom came to be progressively identified with the Mainland states, which included, besides Savoy and Aosta, dynastic possessions like the Principality of Piedmont and the County of Nice, over both of which the Savoyards had been exercising their control since the 13th century and 1388, respectively.
It was never ruled by Sardinians.
2 years ago
Anonymous
No one is fricking claiming that you fricking spastic moron. You are trying to claim that ackowleging a country like Austria-Hungary exists means that you think Hungarians ruled the empire.
No one is fricking saying that a cabal of islanders ran the house of savoy. The kingdom's name was just The Kingdom of Piedmont-Sardinia
2 years ago
Anonymous
>No one is fricking claiming that you fricking spastic moron.
Yes, someone is indeed doing that.
>Sardinia is part of Italy today because the Sardinia (who was also the king of Piedmont because of ancient political shit) conquered the rest of Italy
2 years ago
Anonymous
Absolutely nothing about that implies it was ruled by Sardinians outside your moronic imagination. Find someone who can teach you to read and then see
the eternal anglo slandered and besmirched the good name of Nicolò Machiavelli, preventing italian nationalism from taking shape for centuries, until they and their masonic hordes were ready to mold Italy to their liking, and for their own benefit.
They had been a Habsburg playground and under foreign domination since the Italian wars to begin with. If anything Napoleon slightly uncucked them for a minute.
> He has often been called the father of modern political philosophy and political science > the Discourses on Livy (composed c.1517) has been said to have paved the way of modern republicanism > Commentators such as Leo Strauss have gone so far as to name Machiavelli as the deliberate originator of modernity itself
>modern political philosophy and political science >modern republicanism >modernity
Holy fricking LMAO and since when are those things good? I'd rather be the child of a slave Black person with a drunken irish prostitute who was born with down syndrome and without both of my hands and live in extreme poverty and frail health for the rest of my life than have those things associated to me in any meaningful way. There are thai trannies getting railed by fat oily bald german 65 year olds right now who are way more dignified people than that moronic, miserable frickwit.
Because the state of Sardinia had the rank of Kingdom and the state of Piedmont did not (it was only a principality, formally dependent on the Kingdom of Italy).
No, never, just a bunch of balkanised states
Italyis the same thing as ex-yu, in fact ex-yu had less linguistic, cultural, ethnic and political differences, its just the religion thats realy different
2 years ago
Anonymous
what I thought but sometimes they really do find some forgotten title and try to resurrect it (I mean kingdom of sardinia itself was pretty much useless for most of its existence)
Yes, the king of Italy was the emperor of the HRE. Later there was a kingdom of Italy created by Napoleon.
2 years ago
Anonymous
right I forgot about nappy shenanigans and didn't think the right to italy from emperorship extended after the carolingian, thanks
and since it was also napoleon who dissolved the hre I guess it was actually pretty legit overall
The enlightenment and its consequences (creation of nations, israelite Libs...) have been a disaster for the human race. Why tf would I want to be some office cuck in a unified state rather than be the Lord protector of some based tiny city state?
yeah we should be a bunch of small countries at the mercy of france, spain, germany and wathever country wants to frick our asses deep. Good Idea.
Renaissance was good and all but often people forget the shitload of wars that occurred before and after that period, which by the way lasted no more than 30 years
Lol wrong. Genovese was a major maritime power, so was Pisa for a while. Florence was an incredible cultural powerhosue.
2 years ago
Anonymous
yeah...until they were no more
You know that those cities were periodically under siege because a french or spanish king decided that it was time to frick things up in the peninsula, right? >Genoa gets bombed every now and then by the french >Florence sieged a bunch of time to end the republican regime and to force the medici to rule it for the empire >Pisa: conquered by florence, and in turn, by the medici
The solution is to defend the balkanization of those countries too duh.
Just because you're clean but surrounded by people covered in mud you shouldnt get yourself covered in mud too as the solution. You have to try to clean the others.
Now you’re making an interesting political philosophy here. >Balkanized regions will always be threatened by unified nation-states >In order to neutralize this threat, neighboring nation-states must be Balkanized too
So logically the only world safe for Balkanized states is a fully Balkanized one.
This isn’t enough, however, as talented individuals or simple warmongers will always seek to conquer and unify areas. A world dedicated to Balkanization therefore must have some sort of organization working from the shadows to stop any attempts at unifying nations before they pick up steam. A Balkanization Illuminati, or Balkanatti, if you will.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>A Balkanization Illuminati, or Balkanatti, if you will
Man, I'm totally down for that. Where do I sign?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Like the Order of Assassins from AssCreed. Any butthole that is gaining too much power and starting to threaten the sovereignity of the surrounding polities will be targeted and dealt with.
It wouldn't just be straight-up assassination, it would also be fostering cultural or political discord to dissuade the populace of areas from being too open to unification.
The Balkanatti would also need to set some ground rules for where and when they need to step in, like what constitutes a threat to balkanization. For instance, merchant or defensive leagues between multiple city states could be perfectly fine to exist in this world, but only as long as they never trend towards centralization and threaten the sovereignty of their member states.
Also of course they would have to decide how big of a state is too big. Land can't be the only metric, because then the Asian steppe would have multiple states composed of like 100 people each. And population can't be the only metric either, because then metropoli like NYC wouldn't be able to fit. Some ratio between the two combined with a relatively generous hard limit on land area at least would seem to be the logical solution.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Like the Order of Assassins from AssCreed. Any butthole that is gaining too much power and starting to threaten the sovereignity of the surrounding polities will be targeted and dealt with.
Regional identities are powerful. If you are a strong big boss in a small city-state or fief, why would you risk that and put yourself under a central power? Same reason many are skeptical of joining EU
I've always found it funny how the world views Italian unification and to a lesser degree even Japanese unification. You'd hear phrases like >medieval Italy >A-OK >medieval Japan >A-OK
but >medieval Germany >UM, ACKSHUALLY THERE WAS NO GERMANY BEFORE 1871
being german is fundamentally being stuck between french and slavs and chimping out to get free
I case someone stuck between french and slavs does something else it becomes non german (making money = swiss, boats = dutch, art = austria=
But it has, the Holy Roman Emperor was always the king of Germany also. >but how was that geographically defined
It was divided into imperial circles like this but all of these together was the "German" part of the HRE.
how difficult would it have been for some italians to ally with morocco, ottomans, england and any other neighbor of those meddlers and carve out their own country?
It was already unified by Romans, in fact you could easily say that Romans and Italians are the same thing
talking about?
2 years ago
Anonymous
You understand that romans didn't view italics and provincials in the same way right?
That's basic knowledge if you ever got into roman history
2 years ago
Anonymous
>cannot into ethnogenesis
Thats great anon, guess the next 2000 years of history just didnt happen
2 years ago
Anonymous
>the next 2000 years of history just didnt happen
they did, but despite that Italians retained their ethnic consciousness. It's not like they forgot they were romans and more specifically Italians/Italics
Italians are not like the french who took their ethnonym from a germanic tribe despite being a romance/celtic nation
2 years ago
Anonymous
>not like the french who took their ethnonym from a germanic tribe despite being a romance/celtic nation
Cope. The northern half of France (the one that matters) is very genetically mixed with germanics.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yeah, only the northern half as you said, an not even all of it considering brittany.
French identity is way more artificial than the italian one
2 years ago
Anonymous
most people don't base their identity around minor differences in their genetical makeup compared to people who look like them, speak the same language, share the same history etc
2 years ago
Anonymous
And what has Provence to do with Brittany?? Different genetics, different languages (french is/was forced upon them) different histories (except being inside the drawn lines/under the same jurisdiction of the same imperialistic central governments). What's your cope for that?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Provence doesn't have much to do with brittanny but both had a lot to do with the kingdom of France and the republic so they share that history. I don't get where you draw the line for "artificial", if history isn't a real criteria what is ? what countries aren't artificial ? ethnostates ? there are barely any let alone ones with a long history of being a nation which is what we're talking about. countries are made up things and most people won't feel different from one another because of "ethnicity" as in the physical difference between a roman, gallic or german
There's more ethnic imperial Italians in the New York Metro than during the Roman Empire. There's actually more South Italians in the NY Metro than in Southern Italy today.
>Italy peaked at 10-12mln inhabs during antiquity >Terronia has 13mln inhabs today >According to Census estimates, there were roughly 560,000 Italian Americans in the New York metropolitan area in 2012
Bro, are there even 13mln dagos in the whole US?
Bullshit. The city is like 90% Spics, Asians, Blacks and israelites, and "Italian Americans" are ultra mutted. Pic related "Italian Americans" aka a bunch of naggers.
Italians Americans genetically cluster with southern Italy. israelites would actually be ethnically the same as them.
http://www.iitaly.org/magazine/focus/facts-stories/article/italian-americans-numbers-where-we-live
What I meant to say was that the Metro has the most and in total more than Southern Italy. My mistake.
"Italian" Americans are a bunch of mutts. Pic related.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Center three are obviously Italians
Left largely passed, right is just an Italian octaroon
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Italian octaroon
they're called sicilian
2 years ago
Anonymous
sicilians are literally greco-italic
2 years ago
Anonymous
I see italian burgers kept up with tanning culture.
Or at least the center girl did. I fricking hate to see this fake tan bullshit.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yes the Coast is good for tanning I haven’t met a single women who though ghost pale skin was beautiful here. It’s always “I’m so pale” “oh my gawwwwd” “i can’t believe it”
2 years ago
Anonymous
Italians Americans genetically cluster with southern Italy. israelites would actually be ethnically the same as them.
http://www.iitaly.org/magazine/focus/facts-stories/article/italian-americans-numbers-where-we-live
2 years ago
Anonymous
What I meant to say was that the Metro has the most and in total more than Southern Italy. My mistake.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Fricking shitskined manlet terrone scum. Why couldnt italian-americans be norths italians like those who went to south america? frick sakes
2 years ago
Anonymous
Italians are mixing with Irish, German, French, English and Polish. They’re almost all on the coast. US makes a lot of money by uplifting these cultural groups and uses it for political purposes instead of Anglicizing them.
2 years ago
Anonymous
that would have been quite soulless tbqh
2 years ago
Anonymous
Imagine wanting to be Italian anyway when this is literally part of your historical culture. Even the Italian-American mob adopted a custom/tradition that involved men kissing each other as a greet. Gay as shit.
>there ara people on this very board who think a geographical definition of italy extends beyond the rubicon and campania
they should be happy being considered italian beyond the pomerium
Memes aside how much of this "Italian regionalism" hysteria is native stupidity and how much is actual foreign interference?
No, seriously. Supporting separatist and regionalist movements in an enemy country is a favorite past time in Eastern Europe, for example. Could it not be the same in Western Europe? It's goal wouldn't necessarily be to actual destroy the country but just causing internal strife and division and shifting the focus from foreign affairs could be enough.
I heard France used to tacitly support basque separatist a few decades ago in Spain. And Italy also tried to bribe MonteBlack during the 90s Yugoslav wars to separate from Serbia. So it's not that far fetched.
>option a: local stupidity >option b: foreign interference
It's actually option c: italian regionalism is an almost exclusively economic issue in which the most productive regions want to retain a higher percentage of their taxation and have more freedom in how to spend it, with hardly any nationalistic connotations at all. The only movements to have reached any degree of politicization are Alto Adige, Veneto and Padania, the first folded like a lawn chair after getting more economic freedom, the second would do the same given the same treatment (too bad it's impossible, Italy couldn't afford the financal loss), the third is basically gone.
That said, BAS bullshit in the 50s and 60s had known foreign support from austrian neonazis, but typically back then it was the CIA who finance the far right in Italy so I wouldn't bet on eastern euro interferences.
Because they were a part of the German imperial confederacy. Plus, no one could dream of controlling all of Italy after Charlemagne granted the pope the whole central region.
>Because they were a part of the German imperial confederacy.
Lol that sure didn't stop Venice from annexing the whole marches of Verona and Aquileia, Or France from conquering Milan, etc.
Nobody gave a frick about imperial claims after the lombard league sent the emperor packing.
terroni are closest to the plebeian muttified imperial urban rabble that patricians despised, iron age Italics aka OG Romans were overwhelmingly closest to north Italians and Iberians/south Frenchmen
I know right. Its truly pathetic. That massive autistic moron has been shitting up /misc/, IQfy and IQfy with his schizo ramblings for at least the past 7 years already. He's either an argentinian or a nafri, I'm not sure. But imagine the life of someone who keeps seetheposting about the same fricking thing daily on this godforsaken website for almost a decade. It's beyond pathetic.
It's a mix of things really.
First of all, Italy was literally at the center of unwanted attention, since they had foreign empires at every corner.
Then you have the HRE and the pope playing realpoliticks game all over the peninsula.
The fact that the Italian states were rich and somewhat powerful didn't help either, since they felt like they didn't need to unify and thought they were strong enough to fend for themselves on their own, which was partially true in medieval and reinaissance times, but wasn't that true later.
Then you have the problem that no Italian state ever became powerful enough compared to the rest to attempt this.
If venice had tried it, a coalition of Milan and Florence would probably be enough to stop it.
If Milan tried, Venice would quickly stop it, etc.
It ultimately needed a foreign power to be unified.
>If venice had tried it, a coalition of Milan and Florence would probably be enough to stop it.
WHEN Venice tried, the coalition was called "league of Cambrai" and it was pan-european.
The real issue is that foreign penetration in parts of Italy going back to the 12th century meant attempts to unify the peninsula attracted continent-wide attention through most of the second millennium.
It wasn't about being bigger than the other local powers, they had to be bigger than France, Spain and the Habs.
The league of cambrai wasn't really a war of reunification if Italy, and many Italian states remained neutral.
It is a classic example oif european powers meddling in Italian affairs.
>The league of cambrai wasn't really a war of reunification if Italy
No indeed, it was merely a moment of aggressive expansionism by Venice and yet it still managed to worry the continent enough to shake up a coalition of the great powers.
Imagine what would happen if any italian state actually did seriously try to reunify the peninsula. The other local powers would be the least of its problems.
why do you care?
I find it ironic that the Roman dominated Europa for millennia just for their homeland to end up being dominated by foreign actors for millennia.
You can argue that it was unified by a foreign dynasty btw
This, I'll never recognised those italianised germino-frankish rape babies as an Italian dynasty.
It's not like your opinion about their legitimacy is important, anyway
still sad we didn't romanov'd them all though
>still sad we didn't romanov'd them all though
Get a load of this homosexual. Italy would have been better off staying a monarchy than having a corrupt cuck republic like the spanish one tried to have.
Studies suggest Sardinians have one of the more unadulterated DNA's in Europe. Italians on the other hand...
>Italians “do not exist”. Only Sardinians are pure-blooded
>The case of Sardinia
As far as regards Sardinia, an interesting aspect of these studies is related to the analysis of isolated populations. “Sardinians,” emphasized Pettener, “differ from all other Italian and European populations. While Sicily has been a hub for all Mediterranean populations, Sardinia preserves the oldest traces, not having suffered invasions, and is differentiated from all European populations, just like the Basques and Lapps.
https://www.corriere.it/english/18_maggio_03/italians-do-not-exist-only-sardinians-are-pure-blooded-822d5550-4ee5-11e8-aead-38ee720fad91.shtml
>Il corriere
AHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHA C'è ancora gente che prende sul serio quel giornale? Leggiti libero a sto punto
>https://www.corriere.it/english/18_maggio_03/italians-do-not-exist-only-sardinians-are-pure-blooded-822d5550-4ee5-11e8-aead-38ee720fad91.shtml
totally not leftist propaganda... Italians do not exist therefore Africans can immigrate there en masse
>corriere
>leftist propaganda
The North was mostly independent from 1000 to 1500 ad or even 1800 ad in the case of Veneto, Tuscany, and Lazio
>Venice
>Genoa
>Milan
Those three alone were independent most of post-WRE fall.
the c*urch
t. Italian
It was a huge mistake.
They couldn't agree on their pizza toppings.
Italian unification should have waited a while longer until the states surrounding them lost their character.
Nationalism didn't really come into vogue until the mid 19th Century. Before that countries were made purely by the politics of hereditary dynasties which often intermarried for political reasons. As a result rulers were often of a completely different nationality from the people they ruled. The Kindgom of Sardinia for instance wasn't called that because it's the kingdom of the Sardinians, it's just the one that happens to be in Sardinia.
muh "nationalism wasnt created until the 19th century" meme. not sure what your definition of nationalism is but loyalty to your own region (the people living there being related by blood) always existed albeit on a more local level. the idea you should fight and die for people in other cities, polities, and localities thousands of miles away and you should consider them the same community as yours is fairly modern yes.
>nation is my village
whoa...
yes. look up what "natio" means in latin and "ethnos" in greek and how these words have been used throughout history ya cuck.
>the idea you should fight and die for people in other cities, polities, and localities thousands of miles away and you should consider them the same community as yours is fairly modern yes.
And it's and absolutely abhorrent idea that makes every single person who took part in its creation deserve to be tortured to death in ways that would make assyrians and mexican cartels blush
Post nose
>He defends a revolutionary, modernist, leftwing ideal that destroyed medieval natural order and Christendom and paved the way to this hellish clownworld dystopia we live in nowadays
I think you should be the one to post nose, gay
>he thinks european aristocracy wasn't exactly as israeliteed as modern european governments and israelites love nationalism outside israel
NGMI
Is it opposite day already?
>being against globalism makes you a israelite
huh?
This lol. In every age people who left records have shown a form of ethnic awareness and belonging to a distinct group based on their blood and linguistic affinities.
In Italy's case more specifically, that awareness has existed at least since the Late Middle Ages, if not before. Petrarch for example wrote a widely circulated sonnet on Italian national identity in the 1300s. Machiavelli published an essay in the same vein two centuries later.
christ you people are so dumb and have no idea what nationalism actually is
This
ethnicity isn't the same as nationality you moron
Nationality is based on ethnicity tho
>usa
>china
Those are empires
Only for non-world powers.
Initially yes. Everything changed sometime after World War II though and people want to pretend it never happened.
Ethnicity, along with language, culture, and history, is a key part of it though.
The USA has no one nation. It is split up amongst many competing ethnicities. Those competing groups lack a common culture, ethnicity, and history. White Americans clearly have different takes on everything from America’s founding to the present day compared to Black Americans, and it shows by the tension it causes.
t. American
This.
I dunno but my dad, who was born in Sardegna, doesn't think of himself or us kids as actual Italians. He still speaks the language which I bairly understand.
SARDIGNA NATZIONE
Com'è il movimento anarchico lì da voi?
Sardinia is part of Italy today because the Sardinia (who was also the king of Piedmont because of ancient political shit) conquered the rest of Italy, with a lot help from Italian nationalists like Garibaldi. It'd be funny for Sardinia just just be like "screw you guys, I'm going home" after that.
>the Sardinia (who was also the king of Piedmont because of ancient political shit) conquered the rest of Italy,
Never happened
It was the other way around
*the king of Sardinia
See above
OK then wtf are you talking about?
>pic
???
>OK then wtf are you talking about?
Sardinia never fricking conquered the Alps. Sardinia never fricking conquered Italy.
It simply never happened.
Savoy House conquered Italy.
>the king of Sardinia didn't conquer Italy
>the house he belonged to did
>the house of Sardinia
???
You have one of the most severe cases of autism I've ever seen.
not an argument
Nothing to argue, if you think belonging to the house of Savoy makes him not the king of Sardinia you must have the particular type of autism that also makes people moronic, there's nothing more to say.
>mexican dynasty ruled Ukraine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximilian_I_of_Mexico
What the frick are you talking about
There were still Sardinian soldiers there along with Piedmontese ones, even in Crimea
>soldiers are the effective rulers of a kingdom
Tell that to black americans in wwii
>ruled by the pope=independence
The kingdom of Piedmont/Sardinia was the SAME country.
In 1720, the island was ceded by the Habsburg and Bourbon claimants to the Spanish throne to the Duke of Savoy Victor Amadeus II. The Savoyards united it with their historical possessions on the Italian mainland, and the Kingdom came to be progressively identified with the Mainland states, which included, besides Savoy and Aosta, dynastic possessions like the Principality of Piedmont and the County of Nice, over both of which the Savoyards had been exercising their control since the 13th century and 1388, respectively.
It was never ruled by Sardinians.
No one is fricking claiming that you fricking spastic moron. You are trying to claim that ackowleging a country like Austria-Hungary exists means that you think Hungarians ruled the empire.
No one is fricking saying that a cabal of islanders ran the house of savoy. The kingdom's name was just The Kingdom of Piedmont-Sardinia
>No one is fricking claiming that you fricking spastic moron.
Yes, someone is indeed doing that.
>Sardinia is part of Italy today because the Sardinia (who was also the king of Piedmont because of ancient political shit) conquered the rest of Italy
Absolutely nothing about that implies it was ruled by Sardinians outside your moronic imagination. Find someone who can teach you to read and then see
french (until napoleon iii) and austrian meddling
Took this much for israelites to get their claws on the peninsula.
>i-its a juice!
DAMN...good we weren't ruled by the pope until then...
Cesare Borgia almost did it but Lady Fortune left him for a better man
>a unified italy under the grip of a family of spanish mobster israelites
thank fricking God it didn't happen
Catalan *
yeah you're right, precisely, even fricking worse
How? Romagnol cities dont make an entire peninsula
most italian states had weak militaries
the eternal anglo slandered and besmirched the good name of Nicolò Machiavelli, preventing italian nationalism from taking shape for centuries, until they and their masonic hordes were ready to mold Italy to their liking, and for their own benefit.
>anglo
surely you mean French. they were the ones fighting renaissance wars in italy and ultimately cucking them completely under napoleon
They had been a Habsburg playground and under foreign domination since the Italian wars to begin with. If anything Napoleon slightly uncucked them for a minute.
>Nicolò Machiavelli
Pathetic moronic homosexual who failed at every single one of his objectives in life, and died poor and at the mercy of his enemies.
meant for
> He has often been called the father of modern political philosophy and political science
> the Discourses on Livy (composed c.1517) has been said to have paved the way of modern republicanism
> Commentators such as Leo Strauss have gone so far as to name Machiavelli as the deliberate originator of modernity itself
>modern political philosophy and political science
>modern republicanism
>modernity
Holy fricking LMAO and since when are those things good? I'd rather be the child of a slave Black person with a drunken irish prostitute who was born with down syndrome and without both of my hands and live in extreme poverty and frail health for the rest of my life than have those things associated to me in any meaningful way. There are thai trannies getting railed by fat oily bald german 65 year olds right now who are way more dignified people than that moronic, miserable frickwit.
> sour grapes
you said he's a failure but he achieved all his goals. Now all you have is cope. History will remember him and forget you
>he achieved all his goals
Literally didn't tho. Like I said he died poor and at the mercy of his enemies.
>History will remember him
Yes, as a failure and a terrible, pathetic, half assed thinker. It's way better to be forgotten.
Nah everyone just thinks of the book he wrote. You're the only one randomly butthurt about some guy from 500 years ago
Okay then who do you read for political knowledge? Name some authors.
it was a bit ironic. I think the neobourbons blame the "anglos" instead of the french so I went with that
>Kingdom of Sardinia's capital wasn't in Sardinia
What did they mean by this?
Because the state of Sardinia had the rank of Kingdom and the state of Piedmont did not (it was only a principality, formally dependent on the Kingdom of Italy).
Was there even technically a kingdom of Italy all that time just unclaimed ? remnant from lombard times ?
No, never, just a bunch of balkanised states
Italyis the same thing as ex-yu, in fact ex-yu had less linguistic, cultural, ethnic and political differences, its just the religion thats realy different
what I thought but sometimes they really do find some forgotten title and try to resurrect it (I mean kingdom of sardinia itself was pretty much useless for most of its existence)
Yes, the king of Italy was the emperor of the HRE. Later there was a kingdom of Italy created by Napoleon.
right I forgot about nappy shenanigans and didn't think the right to italy from emperorship extended after the carolingian, thanks
and since it was also napoleon who dissolved the hre I guess it was actually pretty legit overall
Because southern Italy is full of corrupt Anatolians.
It was in other great powers’ interests to keep Italy divided
The enlightenment and its consequences (creation of nations, israelite Libs...) have been a disaster for the human race. Why tf would I want to be some office cuck in a unified state rather than be the Lord protector of some based tiny city state?
Very based & NRxpilled
It's not really unified now.
Austria
italy should not be a country, the middle ages and renaissance is what italy should look like
yeah we should be a bunch of small countries at the mercy of france, spain, germany and wathever country wants to frick our asses deep. Good Idea.
Renaissance was good and all but often people forget the shitload of wars that occurred before and after that period, which by the way lasted no more than 30 years
wars are good, that way i get to kill you for being a pussy nationalist unifier larper
Zitto terrone che sei alto un metro e un francobollo sdraiato se piscio anneghi
sono dell'emilia mi spiace dado
Terrone e pure culattone
pensa essere un provinciale della lombardia hahahaha
Ti cago nell'opercolo boccale
Spaghettoids OUT
>why are there italians in a thread discussing Italy?
kys fricking trash mutt
>sud del Po
>non terrone
This. Italy was a 3rd rate power as city states. The only state that ever got shit done was Venice.
Also Austria... you are never ever ever getting Tyrol back. Sorry.
Lol wrong. Genovese was a major maritime power, so was Pisa for a while. Florence was an incredible cultural powerhosue.
yeah...until they were no more
You know that those cities were periodically under siege because a french or spanish king decided that it was time to frick things up in the peninsula, right?
>Genoa gets bombed every now and then by the french
>Florence sieged a bunch of time to end the republican regime and to force the medici to rule it for the empire
>Pisa: conquered by florence, and in turn, by the medici
The solution is to defend the balkanization of those countries too duh.
Just because you're clean but surrounded by people covered in mud you shouldnt get yourself covered in mud too as the solution. You have to try to clean the others.
Now you’re making an interesting political philosophy here.
>Balkanized regions will always be threatened by unified nation-states
>In order to neutralize this threat, neighboring nation-states must be Balkanized too
So logically the only world safe for Balkanized states is a fully Balkanized one.
This isn’t enough, however, as talented individuals or simple warmongers will always seek to conquer and unify areas. A world dedicated to Balkanization therefore must have some sort of organization working from the shadows to stop any attempts at unifying nations before they pick up steam. A Balkanization Illuminati, or Balkanatti, if you will.
>A Balkanization Illuminati, or Balkanatti, if you will
Man, I'm totally down for that. Where do I sign?
It wouldn't just be straight-up assassination, it would also be fostering cultural or political discord to dissuade the populace of areas from being too open to unification.
The Balkanatti would also need to set some ground rules for where and when they need to step in, like what constitutes a threat to balkanization. For instance, merchant or defensive leagues between multiple city states could be perfectly fine to exist in this world, but only as long as they never trend towards centralization and threaten the sovereignty of their member states.
Also of course they would have to decide how big of a state is too big. Land can't be the only metric, because then the Asian steppe would have multiple states composed of like 100 people each. And population can't be the only metric either, because then metropoli like NYC wouldn't be able to fit. Some ratio between the two combined with a relatively generous hard limit on land area at least would seem to be the logical solution.
Like the Order of Assassins from AssCreed. Any butthole that is gaining too much power and starting to threaten the sovereignity of the surrounding polities will be targeted and dealt with.
I would gladly take that over being ruled by the terroni.
t. venetian
>t. sea israelite
Opinion discarded.
Based fellow Venetian BVLL chad. Veneto secession fricking WHEN???
>yeah we should be a bunch of small countries at the mercy of france, spain, germany and wathever country wants to frick our asses deep. Good Idea.
Yes
Regional identities are powerful. If you are a strong big boss in a small city-state or fief, why would you risk that and put yourself under a central power? Same reason many are skeptical of joining EU
Literally just unite in a swiss like federation
I've always found it funny how the world views Italian unification and to a lesser degree even Japanese unification. You'd hear phrases like
>medieval Italy
>A-OK
>medieval Japan
>A-OK
but
>medieval Germany
>UM, ACKSHUALLY THERE WAS NO GERMANY BEFORE 1871
Japan (duh) and to a lesser extent italy have defined historical geographic boundaries.
Germany doesn't
There are regions that have always been considered Germany. The issue is more so where it ends.
being german is fundamentally being stuck between french and slavs and chimping out to get free
I case someone stuck between french and slavs does something else it becomes non german (making money = swiss, boats = dutch, art = austria=
Italy don’t exist in my see.
>in my see
A gennarooooooooo lo prendiamo sto b1 sì o no?
But it has, the Holy Roman Emperor was always the king of Germany also.
>but how was that geographically defined
It was divided into imperial circles like this but all of these together was the "German" part of the HRE.
Actually they say the same thing for Italy
it depends. if its a historian speaking you know he is referring to italy&germany as regions, if its a normie you need to be aware.
France, Spain and Austria didn't allow it
how difficult would it have been for some italians to ally with morocco, ottomans, england and any other neighbor of those meddlers and carve out their own country?
They're not unified. Vatican still exists and san marino.
its a botched attempt, as everything italian. germany reunified correct without memetic states inside it
arguably luxemburg, switzerland, lichtenstein (though it would need austria too to make sense)
>germany reunified correct
>austria
>most of switzerland
>liechtenstein
>luxembourg
>germany reunified correct
Kek, moron
What do you mean by "re-unify"
It was already unified by Romans, in fact you could easily say that Romans and Italians are the same thing
Yes anon, the welsh are basicaly italians too, croats are greek and the duch are frankish
Frick u talkin bout Black person
Idk, what is
talking about?
You understand that romans didn't view italics and provincials in the same way right?
That's basic knowledge if you ever got into roman history
>cannot into ethnogenesis
Thats great anon, guess the next 2000 years of history just didnt happen
>the next 2000 years of history just didnt happen
they did, but despite that Italians retained their ethnic consciousness. It's not like they forgot they were romans and more specifically Italians/Italics
Italians are not like the french who took their ethnonym from a germanic tribe despite being a romance/celtic nation
>not like the french who took their ethnonym from a germanic tribe despite being a romance/celtic nation
Cope. The northern half of France (the one that matters) is very genetically mixed with germanics.
Yeah, only the northern half as you said, an not even all of it considering brittany.
French identity is way more artificial than the italian one
most people don't base their identity around minor differences in their genetical makeup compared to people who look like them, speak the same language, share the same history etc
And what has Provence to do with Brittany?? Different genetics, different languages (french is/was forced upon them) different histories (except being inside the drawn lines/under the same jurisdiction of the same imperialistic central governments). What's your cope for that?
Provence doesn't have much to do with brittanny but both had a lot to do with the kingdom of France and the republic so they share that history. I don't get where you draw the line for "artificial", if history isn't a real criteria what is ? what countries aren't artificial ? ethnostates ? there are barely any let alone ones with a long history of being a nation which is what we're talking about. countries are made up things and most people won't feel different from one another because of "ethnicity" as in the physical difference between a roman, gallic or german
There's more ethnic imperial Italians in the New York Metro than during the Roman Empire. There's actually more South Italians in the NY Metro than in Southern Italy today.
>Italy peaked at 10-12mln inhabs during antiquity
>Terronia has 13mln inhabs today
>According to Census estimates, there were roughly 560,000 Italian Americans in the New York metropolitan area in 2012
Bro, are there even 13mln dagos in the whole US?
kys
>There's more ethnic imperial Italians
Bullshit. The city is like 90% Spics, Asians, Blacks and israelites, and "Italian Americans" are ultra mutted. Pic related "Italian Americans" aka a bunch of naggers.
looks italian to me
Seething shitskins.
"Italian" Americans are a bunch of mutts. Pic related.
Center three are obviously Italians
Left largely passed, right is just an Italian octaroon
>Italian octaroon
they're called sicilian
sicilians are literally greco-italic
I see italian burgers kept up with tanning culture.
Or at least the center girl did. I fricking hate to see this fake tan bullshit.
Yes the Coast is good for tanning I haven’t met a single women who though ghost pale skin was beautiful here. It’s always “I’m so pale” “oh my gawwwwd” “i can’t believe it”
Italians Americans genetically cluster with southern Italy. israelites would actually be ethnically the same as them.
http://www.iitaly.org/magazine/focus/facts-stories/article/italian-americans-numbers-where-we-live
What I meant to say was that the Metro has the most and in total more than Southern Italy. My mistake.
Fricking shitskined manlet terrone scum. Why couldnt italian-americans be norths italians like those who went to south america? frick sakes
Italians are mixing with Irish, German, French, English and Polish. They’re almost all on the coast. US makes a lot of money by uplifting these cultural groups and uses it for political purposes instead of Anglicizing them.
that would have been quite soulless tbqh
Imagine wanting to be Italian anyway when this is literally part of your historical culture. Even the Italian-American mob adopted a custom/tradition that involved men kissing each other as a greet. Gay as shit.
>There are people on this very board who think Italy is more than a geographical expression
ISHYGDDT
>there ara people on this very board who think a geographical definition of italy extends beyond the rubicon and campania
they should be happy being considered italian beyond the pomerium
Italy was better off when it was divided in small states under administration of white people like LombardoVeneto.
Austrians were weak and low t
Nah: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KHMi9v5iCdc
Memes aside how much of this "Italian regionalism" hysteria is native stupidity and how much is actual foreign interference?
No, seriously. Supporting separatist and regionalist movements in an enemy country is a favorite past time in Eastern Europe, for example. Could it not be the same in Western Europe? It's goal wouldn't necessarily be to actual destroy the country but just causing internal strife and division and shifting the focus from foreign affairs could be enough.
I heard France used to tacitly support basque separatist a few decades ago in Spain. And Italy also tried to bribe MonteBlack during the 90s Yugoslav wars to separate from Serbia. So it's not that far fetched.
>option a: local stupidity
>option b: foreign interference
It's actually option c: italian regionalism is an almost exclusively economic issue in which the most productive regions want to retain a higher percentage of their taxation and have more freedom in how to spend it, with hardly any nationalistic connotations at all. The only movements to have reached any degree of politicization are Alto Adige, Veneto and Padania, the first folded like a lawn chair after getting more economic freedom, the second would do the same given the same treatment (too bad it's impossible, Italy couldn't afford the financal loss), the third is basically gone.
That said, BAS bullshit in the 50s and 60s had known foreign support from austrian neonazis, but typically back then it was the CIA who finance the far right in Italy so I wouldn't bet on eastern euro interferences.
Because they were a part of the German imperial confederacy. Plus, no one could dream of controlling all of Italy after Charlemagne granted the pope the whole central region.
>Because they were a part of the German imperial confederacy.
Lol that sure didn't stop Venice from annexing the whole marches of Verona and Aquileia, Or France from conquering Milan, etc.
Nobody gave a frick about imperial claims after the lombard league sent the emperor packing.
Cuz theyre wops n daggos, mamma miaing all over the place.
you will always be an amerimutt
Cope
>reunify
When in history were they united before risorgimento?
Rome, you godless moronic homosexual.
Ah, good old days when Italy was one with Maghreb, Middle East, and Turkey...
The Venetian demons intentionally stunted the Ligurian world order and prevented them from reunifying the rest of the peninsula.
>"Italian"
Soulless nationalist
The land of gays and pedophiles
There was really no reason to until Napoleonic auism
The French, OP
Habsburgs as well
No country is more disfunctional than Italy.
bc its a made up nation
terroni are closest to the plebeian muttified imperial urban rabble that patricians despised, iron age Italics aka OG Romans were overwhelmingly closest to north Italians and Iberians/south Frenchmen
Ancient Roman’s and Etruscans were 87% or more Anatolian.
Fricking kek. Delusional moron.
>Terroni live rent free in the head of single Siculo Neapolitan schizo
Holy frick. Imagine living 24/7 on this Korean cardboard seething about Southern BVLLS fricking Padanian women at an industrial rate.
Look at this moron, posting at 4 AM on a Korean cardboard.
Hahahahah
Truly mental illness.
Read and weep
https://hbdchick.wordpress.com/2014/11/19/medieval-manorialisms-selection-pressures/
I know right. Its truly pathetic. That massive autistic moron has been shitting up /misc/, IQfy and IQfy with his schizo ramblings for at least the past 7 years already. He's either an argentinian or a nafri, I'm not sure. But imagine the life of someone who keeps seetheposting about the same fricking thing daily on this godforsaken website for almost a decade. It's beyond pathetic.
I dislike questions like this because it presupposes an "italian state" was always going to exist.
Big powers conspired to keep them divided
Foreign and internal politics didn't want it.
It's a mix of things really.
First of all, Italy was literally at the center of unwanted attention, since they had foreign empires at every corner.
Then you have the HRE and the pope playing realpoliticks game all over the peninsula.
The fact that the Italian states were rich and somewhat powerful didn't help either, since they felt like they didn't need to unify and thought they were strong enough to fend for themselves on their own, which was partially true in medieval and reinaissance times, but wasn't that true later.
Then you have the problem that no Italian state ever became powerful enough compared to the rest to attempt this.
If venice had tried it, a coalition of Milan and Florence would probably be enough to stop it.
If Milan tried, Venice would quickly stop it, etc.
It ultimately needed a foreign power to be unified.
>If venice had tried it, a coalition of Milan and Florence would probably be enough to stop it.
WHEN Venice tried, the coalition was called "league of Cambrai" and it was pan-european.
The real issue is that foreign penetration in parts of Italy going back to the 12th century meant attempts to unify the peninsula attracted continent-wide attention through most of the second millennium.
It wasn't about being bigger than the other local powers, they had to be bigger than France, Spain and the Habs.
The league of cambrai wasn't really a war of reunification if Italy, and many Italian states remained neutral.
It is a classic example oif european powers meddling in Italian affairs.
>The league of cambrai wasn't really a war of reunification if Italy
No indeed, it was merely a moment of aggressive expansionism by Venice and yet it still managed to worry the continent enough to shake up a coalition of the great powers.
Imagine what would happen if any italian state actually did seriously try to reunify the peninsula. The other local powers would be the least of its problems.
Italy schmitaly