Why didn't centrally planned socialism work out unlike market socialism?

Why didn't centrally planned socialism work out unlike market socialism?

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  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >trabant
    Smelliest car in the world, looks cool tho.

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    By accident or by design, all it did was recreate the asiatic mode of production.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >in revolutionary socialism the state is not interested in wealth redistribution because the state is preoccupied defending the interests of the working class from the reactionary capitallists and other displaced former leaders of society
      >when this threat subsides the state, no longer serving a purpose, withers away into non existence
      pretty big leap of faith tbh

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        This is what they mean when they say it works on paper

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        It's part of why some assert communism is really just a religion. Its tenets are based on pure faith with no basis in reality.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          It's really a counterbalance to a lack of security that early liberal societies allowed. That's probably Engel's main point: at least feudalism secures some sliver of life for the peasants to build their own. Liberalism essentially meant increasing freedom but also increasing alienation. Instead of trying to address spiritual alienation from nation or religious communities they merely stopped at the material condition of isolation.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >at least feudalism secures some sliver of life for the peasants to build their own
            Most people dont want to be farmers

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            They don't want to be city serfs working in a factory 12 hours a day either.
            nta

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            most people dream of being self-sufficient to the point of overabundance, and achieve conditions to build a family and/or rule others, but lack the critical ability to discern how to get there. 99% settle down afterward, whether they be peasants, workers, lower nobles or small entrepreneurs. For those at the top, since they have that security, either they'll develop paranoid tendency in order to keep that self-sufficience, or, lacking that capacity to critically estimate their own position, fall to decadence over a singular generations, sometimes multiple.
            It's quite simple, really.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      What this gay fails to realize is that EVERY state's true purpose is to protect and expand its own power, the feudal lords, slaveowners, capitalists and proletariat are all just means to that end. If anything modern states are worse than premodern ones, because lords could actually challenge the power of government effectively. Thus a nation which is just proletariat and the state will inevitably lead to the state putting its boots on the proletariat's necks.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Georges Orwell put it best
        >"Power, or rather the exercise of power, was the point."

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    A central planning bureau of x number of bureaucrats can never be as intelligent as a market that consists of the entirety of society. The market had perfect data, gosplan had a simulacrum of it and a fraction of a percentage of people to think and act on it.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      This post isn't going to age well. In a few decades no one will be able to afford cars and we're going to look back on the USSR and US and say "well at least everyone can own a Lada but not everyone can own a Lambo", even though we know there were Honda Civic drivers in between.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >at least everyone can own a Lada
        Everyone *couldn't* own a Lada. In 1985 vehicle ownership was at 45 for every 1000 people.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Irrelevant. That's not going to be the impression.

          >Domestic car production satisfied only 45% of the domestic demand; nevertheless, no import of cars was permitted.[16]

          If the USSR had more industrialized allies it would have had as high of a rate as anyone else, and this cuts back to the problem. All of the countries that despise socialism are going to be both smaller production totals in the future AND they're risking being on the international outs with limited trade opportunities.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >if there was more industry to plunder, there would've been more cars
            lmao @ marxist economics

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Most vehicles owned in America are not produced in America. Basically all construction vehicles outside of cat are foreign owned. I think the plunder thing must be a projection because either A) you're tired of third worldists screaming 'colonizer thief' or B) you're an Israeli, whose economy is entirely based on a combination of foreign handouts and plundering Palestinian locales.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Not him, but the USSR had plenty of industrialized allies. It's just that those countries were also centrally planned shitholes.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Taxes and regulations are the biggest price hikes for a car.

            This is also blatantly untrue. It's the cost of labor and materials- but the problem is that consumption has shifted, the markets are oversaturated, and elasticity is changing on traditional items. That's why wages are shrinking in proportion to good's cost.

            Not really. They had... Smaller Germany and Poland. Unless you're trying to say Czechoslovakia and Romania are equivalent to France, Britain, Italy, Turkey, etc etc etc. France actually did just arrest the entire economic zone of north west Africa. Every time you see a blurb in the news about militants in NW Africa it always pertains to French control.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Czechoslovakia for instance was actually a major manufacturer of cars, trains, tanks and so on. Interestingly enough, the Czechoslovak car industry went into an immediate downturn in the late 40s.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Look at the total populations. It's a miracle they had anything. They had, what, a quarter of the population of Spain? Spain had two and half times the population of Romania. Only Poland and Yugoslavia were equivalent. That's assuming you're counting Yugoslavia. China had it's own unique developmental issues.

            https://i.imgur.com/hYJfSVt.jpeg

            hm...

            Since 2022 the local cars around here cost about as much as new. We're talking trucks with 250k+ miles going for over $15k. That's nuts. I don't know who you think you're showing this graph to. I had to work two jobs just to not be able to afford rent. In my city it turns out it's actually the same price to buy a house, a little more for furnishing and utilities, but failed even that.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Czechoslovakia had the industrial heart of A-H. One of the reasons Hitler was so gung-ho about occupying Czechia were the immense heavy industrial capabilities Czechoslovakia had despite being such a tiny country.
            And it's a great example because it was already a developed country by the time communism took root there and you can read about how specific decisions by the commie party castrated the local car industry.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >read about how specific decisions by the commie party castrated the local car industry.
            Do you have a source for the interested

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Not in English.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            i'm hungarian and you need to have a nice day for being a portland transsexual

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I'm a veteran from Dixieland. Frick Hungary and frick Hungarians. If you morons had a lick of sense then any system would work for you but it never does because you're low IQ mongrels. Attila was Gothic by the way.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >predicts soon collapse(tm)
        >doesn't actually know about historical east state car ownership
        SAD

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          't actually know about historical east state car ownership
          Because that was an incorrect total figure. See:

          Irrelevant. That's not going to be the impression.

          >Domestic car production satisfied only 45% of the domestic demand; nevertheless, no import of cars was permitted.[16]

          If the USSR had more industrialized allies it would have had as high of a rate as anyone else, and this cuts back to the problem. All of the countries that despise socialism are going to be both smaller production totals in the future AND they're risking being on the international outs with limited trade opportunities.

          car production satisfied only 45% of the domestic demand; nevertheless, no import of cars was permitted.[16]

          >predicts soon collapse

          That's why car pool companies are being registered in advance. The WEF is also predicting a collapse of housing, which took place two years ago. The western countries are averse to losing population but that's literally the only way to stabilize their economies.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Taxes and regulations are the biggest price hikes for a car. We can't build cars like lada or trabant since they won't meet regulations.
        Nta

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Lada produces cars today. They're about the same as Honda Accords. Supposedly they shut down production but I don't know for how long, and search engines like Google have tried to delist them over the last few years. (same reason why RT is banned on Youtube)

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        And yet the states in the eastern bloc with best living conditions was hungary and chechoslovakia who both did market reforms

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >states in the eastern bloc with best living conditions was hungary
          Oh yeah you're right, I take back what I said about Magyars here:

          I'm a veteran from Dixieland. Frick Hungary and frick Hungarians. If you morons had a lick of sense then any system would work for you but it never does because you're low IQ mongrels. Attila was Gothic by the way.

          But CZECHS? Now I'm seething.

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Market socialism didn’t work either
    At least it didn’t work in Yugoslavia. They tried to run state enterprises like private companies but still failed. So they had to keep taking out IMF loans to prop them up

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    hm...

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Literally just too many layers of bureaucracy. It takes forever for it to respond because of how many layers it has to go through to do anything whereas a market economy allows smaller less centralised groups to respond quicker.

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >commie applies racism as a reason his system didn't work
    lmao

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I'm not a Marxist,I'm just playing devil's advocate because the western economies did have an objective starting advantage over eastern states in terms of access to resources,international trade lanes, and labor pools. I think of the governments were reversed the results would have been the same or similar.

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Because market socialism is superior and socialist countries should have all copied a reformed version of Titoism.

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