>in revolutionary socialism the state is not interested in wealth redistribution because the state is preoccupied defending the interests of the working class from the reactionary capitallists and other displaced former leaders of society >when this threat subsides the state, no longer serving a purpose, withers away into non existence
pretty big leap of faith tbh
It's really a counterbalance to a lack of security that early liberal societies allowed. That's probably Engel's main point: at least feudalism secures some sliver of life for the peasants to build their own. Liberalism essentially meant increasing freedom but also increasing alienation. Instead of trying to address spiritual alienation from nation or religious communities they merely stopped at the material condition of isolation.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>at least feudalism secures some sliver of life for the peasants to build their own
Most people dont want to be farmers
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
They don't want to be city serfs working in a factory 12 hours a day either.
nta
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
most people dream of being self-sufficient to the point of overabundance, and achieve conditions to build a family and/or rule others, but lack the critical ability to discern how to get there. 99% settle down afterward, whether they be peasants, workers, lower nobles or small entrepreneurs. For those at the top, since they have that security, either they'll develop paranoid tendency in order to keep that self-sufficience, or, lacking that capacity to critically estimate their own position, fall to decadence over a singular generations, sometimes multiple.
It's quite simple, really.
What this gay fails to realize is that EVERY state's true purpose is to protect and expand its own power, the feudal lords, slaveowners, capitalists and proletariat are all just means to that end. If anything modern states are worse than premodern ones, because lords could actually challenge the power of government effectively. Thus a nation which is just proletariat and the state will inevitably lead to the state putting its boots on the proletariat's necks.
A central planning bureau of x number of bureaucrats can never be as intelligent as a market that consists of the entirety of society. The market had perfect data, gosplan had a simulacrum of it and a fraction of a percentage of people to think and act on it.
This post isn't going to age well. In a few decades no one will be able to afford cars and we're going to look back on the USSR and US and say "well at least everyone can own a Lada but not everyone can own a Lambo", even though we know there were Honda Civic drivers in between.
Irrelevant. That's not going to be the impression.
>Domestic car production satisfied only 45% of the domestic demand; nevertheless, no import of cars was permitted.[16]
If the USSR had more industrialized allies it would have had as high of a rate as anyone else, and this cuts back to the problem. All of the countries that despise socialism are going to be both smaller production totals in the future AND they're risking being on the international outs with limited trade opportunities.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>if there was more industry to plunder, there would've been more cars
lmao @ marxist economics
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Most vehicles owned in America are not produced in America. Basically all construction vehicles outside of cat are foreign owned. I think the plunder thing must be a projection because either A) you're tired of third worldists screaming 'colonizer thief' or B) you're an Israeli, whose economy is entirely based on a combination of foreign handouts and plundering Palestinian locales.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Not him, but the USSR had plenty of industrialized allies. It's just that those countries were also centrally planned shitholes.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Taxes and regulations are the biggest price hikes for a car.
This is also blatantly untrue. It's the cost of labor and materials- but the problem is that consumption has shifted, the markets are oversaturated, and elasticity is changing on traditional items. That's why wages are shrinking in proportion to good's cost.
Not really. They had... Smaller Germany and Poland. Unless you're trying to say Czechoslovakia and Romania are equivalent to France, Britain, Italy, Turkey, etc etc etc. France actually did just arrest the entire economic zone of north west Africa. Every time you see a blurb in the news about militants in NW Africa it always pertains to French control.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Czechoslovakia for instance was actually a major manufacturer of cars, trains, tanks and so on. Interestingly enough, the Czechoslovak car industry went into an immediate downturn in the late 40s.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Look at the total populations. It's a miracle they had anything. They had, what, a quarter of the population of Spain? Spain had two and half times the population of Romania. Only Poland and Yugoslavia were equivalent. That's assuming you're counting Yugoslavia. China had it's own unique developmental issues.
https://i.imgur.com/hYJfSVt.jpeg
hm...
Since 2022 the local cars around here cost about as much as new. We're talking trucks with 250k+ miles going for over $15k. That's nuts. I don't know who you think you're showing this graph to. I had to work two jobs just to not be able to afford rent. In my city it turns out it's actually the same price to buy a house, a little more for furnishing and utilities, but failed even that.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Czechoslovakia had the industrial heart of A-H. One of the reasons Hitler was so gung-ho about occupying Czechia were the immense heavy industrial capabilities Czechoslovakia had despite being such a tiny country.
And it's a great example because it was already a developed country by the time communism took root there and you can read about how specific decisions by the commie party castrated the local car industry.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>read about how specific decisions by the commie party castrated the local car industry.
Do you have a source for the interested
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Not in English.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
i'm hungarian and you need to have a nice day for being a portland transsexual
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
I'm a veteran from Dixieland. Frick Hungary and frick Hungarians. If you morons had a lick of sense then any system would work for you but it never does because you're low IQ mongrels. Attila was Gothic by the way.
't actually know about historical east state car ownership
Because that was an incorrect total figure. See:
Irrelevant. That's not going to be the impression.
>Domestic car production satisfied only 45% of the domestic demand; nevertheless, no import of cars was permitted.[16]
If the USSR had more industrialized allies it would have had as high of a rate as anyone else, and this cuts back to the problem. All of the countries that despise socialism are going to be both smaller production totals in the future AND they're risking being on the international outs with limited trade opportunities.
car production satisfied only 45% of the domestic demand; nevertheless, no import of cars was permitted.[16]
>predicts soon collapse
That's why car pool companies are being registered in advance. The WEF is also predicting a collapse of housing, which took place two years ago. The western countries are averse to losing population but that's literally the only way to stabilize their economies.
Lada produces cars today. They're about the same as Honda Accords. Supposedly they shut down production but I don't know for how long, and search engines like Google have tried to delist them over the last few years. (same reason why RT is banned on Youtube)
>states in the eastern bloc with best living conditions was hungary
Oh yeah you're right, I take back what I said about Magyars here:
I'm a veteran from Dixieland. Frick Hungary and frick Hungarians. If you morons had a lick of sense then any system would work for you but it never does because you're low IQ mongrels. Attila was Gothic by the way.
Market socialism didn’t work either
At least it didn’t work in Yugoslavia. They tried to run state enterprises like private companies but still failed. So they had to keep taking out IMF loans to prop them up
Literally just too many layers of bureaucracy. It takes forever for it to respond because of how many layers it has to go through to do anything whereas a market economy allows smaller less centralised groups to respond quicker.
I'm not a Marxist,I'm just playing devil's advocate because the western economies did have an objective starting advantage over eastern states in terms of access to resources,international trade lanes, and labor pools. I think of the governments were reversed the results would have been the same or similar.
>trabant
Smelliest car in the world, looks cool tho.
By accident or by design, all it did was recreate the asiatic mode of production.
>in revolutionary socialism the state is not interested in wealth redistribution because the state is preoccupied defending the interests of the working class from the reactionary capitallists and other displaced former leaders of society
>when this threat subsides the state, no longer serving a purpose, withers away into non existence
pretty big leap of faith tbh
This is what they mean when they say it works on paper
It's part of why some assert communism is really just a religion. Its tenets are based on pure faith with no basis in reality.
It's really a counterbalance to a lack of security that early liberal societies allowed. That's probably Engel's main point: at least feudalism secures some sliver of life for the peasants to build their own. Liberalism essentially meant increasing freedom but also increasing alienation. Instead of trying to address spiritual alienation from nation or religious communities they merely stopped at the material condition of isolation.
>at least feudalism secures some sliver of life for the peasants to build their own
Most people dont want to be farmers
They don't want to be city serfs working in a factory 12 hours a day either.
nta
most people dream of being self-sufficient to the point of overabundance, and achieve conditions to build a family and/or rule others, but lack the critical ability to discern how to get there. 99% settle down afterward, whether they be peasants, workers, lower nobles or small entrepreneurs. For those at the top, since they have that security, either they'll develop paranoid tendency in order to keep that self-sufficience, or, lacking that capacity to critically estimate their own position, fall to decadence over a singular generations, sometimes multiple.
It's quite simple, really.
What this gay fails to realize is that EVERY state's true purpose is to protect and expand its own power, the feudal lords, slaveowners, capitalists and proletariat are all just means to that end. If anything modern states are worse than premodern ones, because lords could actually challenge the power of government effectively. Thus a nation which is just proletariat and the state will inevitably lead to the state putting its boots on the proletariat's necks.
Georges Orwell put it best
>"Power, or rather the exercise of power, was the point."
A central planning bureau of x number of bureaucrats can never be as intelligent as a market that consists of the entirety of society. The market had perfect data, gosplan had a simulacrum of it and a fraction of a percentage of people to think and act on it.
This post isn't going to age well. In a few decades no one will be able to afford cars and we're going to look back on the USSR and US and say "well at least everyone can own a Lada but not everyone can own a Lambo", even though we know there were Honda Civic drivers in between.
>at least everyone can own a Lada
Everyone *couldn't* own a Lada. In 1985 vehicle ownership was at 45 for every 1000 people.
Irrelevant. That's not going to be the impression.
>Domestic car production satisfied only 45% of the domestic demand; nevertheless, no import of cars was permitted.[16]
If the USSR had more industrialized allies it would have had as high of a rate as anyone else, and this cuts back to the problem. All of the countries that despise socialism are going to be both smaller production totals in the future AND they're risking being on the international outs with limited trade opportunities.
>if there was more industry to plunder, there would've been more cars
lmao @ marxist economics
Most vehicles owned in America are not produced in America. Basically all construction vehicles outside of cat are foreign owned. I think the plunder thing must be a projection because either A) you're tired of third worldists screaming 'colonizer thief' or B) you're an Israeli, whose economy is entirely based on a combination of foreign handouts and plundering Palestinian locales.
Not him, but the USSR had plenty of industrialized allies. It's just that those countries were also centrally planned shitholes.
>Taxes and regulations are the biggest price hikes for a car.
This is also blatantly untrue. It's the cost of labor and materials- but the problem is that consumption has shifted, the markets are oversaturated, and elasticity is changing on traditional items. That's why wages are shrinking in proportion to good's cost.
Not really. They had... Smaller Germany and Poland. Unless you're trying to say Czechoslovakia and Romania are equivalent to France, Britain, Italy, Turkey, etc etc etc. France actually did just arrest the entire economic zone of north west Africa. Every time you see a blurb in the news about militants in NW Africa it always pertains to French control.
Czechoslovakia for instance was actually a major manufacturer of cars, trains, tanks and so on. Interestingly enough, the Czechoslovak car industry went into an immediate downturn in the late 40s.
Look at the total populations. It's a miracle they had anything. They had, what, a quarter of the population of Spain? Spain had two and half times the population of Romania. Only Poland and Yugoslavia were equivalent. That's assuming you're counting Yugoslavia. China had it's own unique developmental issues.
Since 2022 the local cars around here cost about as much as new. We're talking trucks with 250k+ miles going for over $15k. That's nuts. I don't know who you think you're showing this graph to. I had to work two jobs just to not be able to afford rent. In my city it turns out it's actually the same price to buy a house, a little more for furnishing and utilities, but failed even that.
Czechoslovakia had the industrial heart of A-H. One of the reasons Hitler was so gung-ho about occupying Czechia were the immense heavy industrial capabilities Czechoslovakia had despite being such a tiny country.
And it's a great example because it was already a developed country by the time communism took root there and you can read about how specific decisions by the commie party castrated the local car industry.
>read about how specific decisions by the commie party castrated the local car industry.
Do you have a source for the interested
Not in English.
i'm hungarian and you need to have a nice day for being a portland transsexual
I'm a veteran from Dixieland. Frick Hungary and frick Hungarians. If you morons had a lick of sense then any system would work for you but it never does because you're low IQ mongrels. Attila was Gothic by the way.
>predicts soon collapse(tm)
>doesn't actually know about historical east state car ownership
SAD
't actually know about historical east state car ownership
Because that was an incorrect total figure. See:
car production satisfied only 45% of the domestic demand; nevertheless, no import of cars was permitted.[16]
>predicts soon collapse
That's why car pool companies are being registered in advance. The WEF is also predicting a collapse of housing, which took place two years ago. The western countries are averse to losing population but that's literally the only way to stabilize their economies.
Taxes and regulations are the biggest price hikes for a car. We can't build cars like lada or trabant since they won't meet regulations.
Nta
Lada produces cars today. They're about the same as Honda Accords. Supposedly they shut down production but I don't know for how long, and search engines like Google have tried to delist them over the last few years. (same reason why RT is banned on Youtube)
And yet the states in the eastern bloc with best living conditions was hungary and chechoslovakia who both did market reforms
>states in the eastern bloc with best living conditions was hungary
Oh yeah you're right, I take back what I said about Magyars here:
But CZECHS? Now I'm seething.
Market socialism didn’t work either
At least it didn’t work in Yugoslavia. They tried to run state enterprises like private companies but still failed. So they had to keep taking out IMF loans to prop them up
hm...
Literally just too many layers of bureaucracy. It takes forever for it to respond because of how many layers it has to go through to do anything whereas a market economy allows smaller less centralised groups to respond quicker.
>commie applies racism as a reason his system didn't work
lmao
I'm not a Marxist,I'm just playing devil's advocate because the western economies did have an objective starting advantage over eastern states in terms of access to resources,international trade lanes, and labor pools. I think of the governments were reversed the results would have been the same or similar.
Because market socialism is superior and socialist countries should have all copied a reformed version of Titoism.