Why do Catholics worship statues that can neither benefit them nor harm them? Do they not know all power belongs to God?
Why do Catholics worship statues that can neither benefit them nor harm them? Do they not know all power belongs to God?
Why do Catholics worship statues that can neither benefit them nor harm them? Do they not know all power belongs to God?
Because Idolatry is the most human of sins.
> Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image.
I guess they missed that one.
whats on the ark of the covenant?
You don't worship the cherubim on it. though.
Mythic beings. Not anything in heaven or earth or the sea.
The worship of Mary is israeli subversion which corrupted the Catholic church into another version of Islam because the divinity of the Christ is of the Father and not the earthly mother and so the children of God are led astray into to their own damnation while the devil laughs at their blindness to their own nature.
Wouldn't the worship of Mary be a continuation of the pagan tradition of worshiping the Goddess, or the queen of heaven? Seems very unisraeli to me, unlike say protestants who worship Israel.
Also idolatry
Men are simply inclined towards idolatry. It's no wonder that history's largest corrupt bureaucracy would institutionalize it somehow.
Interesting argument, for some the gigantic nature of the catholic church is an argument for her divine origin.
I bet some would have argued the same way about the tower of Babel project.
Sup Dirk, I’m back. Took a break for lent.
Regardless I missed you.
>that history's largest corrupt bureaucracy would institutionalize it somehow.
Citation needed. I see no evidence that the United State of America (history's largest corrupt bureaucracy) have institutionalised Marian Dogmas. So if you can’t prove that I expect you to retract that statement.
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all"
I agree that is idolatry but the OP was
>Why do Catholics worship statues *picture or Mary*
And Dirk said (
)
>……….would institutionalize it somehow.
And I asked for proof of institutionalised Marian Dogmas (
)
You raise in interesting but different point to what I asked, The flag =/= Marian dogmas or statues of her.
Slander is a sin, you should know that Dirk. Then again, when can you expect charity from an internet Protestant?
Is slander what happens when I'm right?
You're not right.
>would institutionalize it somehow.
Doesn't that mean that the visible church was in a state of idolatry (that pretty much means apostasy if anyone wants to be honest) since the 700s because the 2nd council of Nicaea anathematized anyone who would not venerated images?
Yes, I do think the visible, institutional catholic church was in a formal state of apostasy from Nicaea 2 until the reformation. That doesn't mean there were no true Christians or true churches throughout, because not everyone practiced the idolatry that was technically mandated. It wasn't enforced and still isn't. Few Catholics kiss icons and none are excommunicated over it.
I would also point out that my opponent on this would have the exact same conundrum for the aniconic period before Nicaea 2, where icons were as a rule not venerated and kissed
>aniconic period before Nicaea 2
Are you talking about the iconoclastic period sponsored by the Byzantine government? If so, wouldn't he just say that was a church versus state thing? I think the biggest supporters of the use of icons during that time came from the monastics and from the regular joe living in the empire.
It is also a state issue, yes
>hurr u r worshiping the image and not what it depicts
Try being less intentionally dishonest
Even conceding your distinction, the commandment instructs is against making and worshiping before an image of anything at all. So, Mary is an improper subject of worship and the mode of worship before an image is sin. That's two commandment violations.
Go convert to Islam or something
They don't know God so they erect idols/icons which they can know.
1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
1 John 5:21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.
The devil can cite scripture to serve his purpose.
As is the case here.
We don't "pray to" idols, saints, or Mary. We pray to God. We pray for the intercession of Mary and the Saints with God. We do not thing they grant anything unlike polytheists. We wish to show God our respect for those who have served him better and seek their support for our intentions placed before the Lord.
>We pray for the intercession of Mary
If you want intercession then worship the moon flesh of the fallen star because that is the religion made for the purpose, but know that it was not made for children of God.
>Xcuck STILL seething about the fact that he needs to believe in one God and be a decent human being in order to enter heaven instead of the "grace" get out of jail free card
When a person asks Mary to intercede on their behalf with God they are invoking the moon flesh of the fallen star to deliver them to God. This is inappropriate to children of God who are born with the Holy Spirit indwelling within their earthly flesh as its sacred temple. How is it possible that the children of God have become so blind to themselves in this dark age?
>shibible
>Do not put your trust in princes, in human beings, who cannot save.
>if you have any issues with icons or objection to people treating dead objection with spiritual reverence then you are a Muslim.
Yikes!
>The devil can cite scripture to serve his purpose.
>As is the case here.
The devil can also ignore scripture to convince people to engage in sin.
>We don't "pray to" idols, saints, or Mary. We pray to God.
Anon, I…… that’s an objective lie.
>We pray for the intercession of Mary and the Saints with God.
Pray to whom?
Pray to God that Mary will intercede for you?
Or do you pray to Mary and ask her to intercede.
Don’t bother I know the answer. So I will call you out for bearing false witness when you said
>We don't "pray to" idols, saints, or Mary.
What you do next will be between you and God.
Noting I personally don’t even object to praying to Saint. I just dislike your lies.
See
Or Exodus 20:4-6
Bitch, it's not that complicated. The israelites and Muslims pull it off great without any loss of aesthetic style. To a lesser extent, Protestants get it too. The Commandement doesn't say: "you shall not worship a stone as a literal stone. But if you say the stone is really a god but not in the stone then that's okay because I'm a moron and easily fooled. Also if you worship a stone but say you are using it as a middle man to me I'm also tricked."
No IDOLS of things in heaven, dumbass. Goddamn. Why is this so hard for some people?
God literally tells people to get healed with bones and a snake staff and tells people to make statues all over their places of worship.
And then you go to Numbers 21:8-9, and you see when Moses and the children of Israel were in the wilderness, and they began to rebel against God, God sends a plague of snakes among them. Moses intercedes for them, and then God commands Moses once again.
He says to make a brazen serpent, and put it up on a pole, and when the children of Israel looked to it they were healed. Now you and I know that this verse foreshadows John 3:11-12, in the New Testament, as a type or an image representing the coming Christ.
>No IDOLS of things in heaven
Like Jesus or Muhammed?
And Geometry is something that Mathematically cannot exist in reality, and so could be defined as "Heavenly" with its "Sacred Geometry".
Who did they think they were projecting geometry like they own the place?!
>And Geometry is something that Mathematically cannot exist in reality
schizophrenic psychobabble autism...
>well you state your points like a moron
Or, you're just a moron anon.
>God doesnt speak for himself so he isnt God anymore?
correct.
>even kings send messengers
Lol, KINGS IN PHYSICAL REALITY OBSERVED BY OTHER PEOPLE TELL THEIR TAX COLLECTORS AND BARONS WHAT TO DO.
vs
A RANDOM MAN WHO CLAIMS TO RECIEVE MESSAGES FROM A GOD NOBODY CAN SEE.
MORMONISM, JEHOVAH'S WITESSES ETC...
THE CATHOLIC, PROTESTANT SPLIT ETC.
why are there so many schizos on his? i dont see this many on other boards or at least they arent so obvious
>why are there so many schizos on his? i dont see this many on other boards or at least they arent so obvious
Said the Christian moron that hallucinates his israeli sky daddy and ironically calls people schizo when he has no argument.
Why are you such a stupid fricking moron anon?
Like seriously why were you born so utterly stupid?
you literally make no arguments, you insult like a moron and that's it, make no point whatsoever and just insult there's not way to conduct communication with you
>you literally make no arguments
>why are there so many schizos on his? i dont see this many on other boards or at least they arent so obvious
Lol, that's not a valid argument anon.
Please tell us how you can tell the difference between true and false religious leaders.
You can't. Anyone can claim they are speaking on behalf of god.
Your god can't be a god if people can speak on his behalf.
>and just insult there's not way to conduct communication with you
Well when you are literally too stupid to even tie your own shoelaces or remember your own birthday yeah, you deserve to be abused till the day you die.
You are literally the shit that comes out the elephants ass.
You are the maggot that crawls on the festering wound.
You are the ass-licker of Jesus.
You are a mindless imbecile with zero logical thinking ability.
You are literally nothing.
>schizophrenic psychobabble autism...
No.
t.Doctorate of Mathematics (PhD, Number Theory)
>No.
>t.Doctorate of Mathematics (PhD, Number Theory)
Lol, A perfect square not existing in reality has got absolutely nothing to do with the existence/non existence of god.
It simply proves that humans can imagine things that don't physically exist. Such as god for example.
>humans can imagine things that don't physically exist
Why are you so mad that Santa is your mom and dad? Just enjoy your presents, and stop complaining that reindeer don't fly. And when you grow up, give presents to children, because you love them, but don't take credit for it, because gift giving is not about you.
>Muslims
>aesthetic style
You can pick only one. You cannot have both.
dude lets tore atheist first and go for each other nit picking after we are done with everyone else
its kinda crazy how hard nicaea ii undermines the roman & eastern church's ecclesiology. one council basically forcing a logical person away.
goddess worship is the end state of fallen man before obliteration.
people have been revering Mary since 2k years ago and here we are
All those people are dead and are dying. Not seeing much of a rebuttal here.
>people die
yeah people die, but i dont see the total obliteration you say
I see a possession by objects, worshiping idols, which will be destroyed.
>All those people are dead
So christ lied then?
Not at all, the Holy Spirit saves whoever he please. But scripture says that God hates idolators, and hate is a strong word.
>we don't "worship" mary, lol. We just ask her to pray for us kek
giving major kundalini vibes. Pure hinduism
Disagree. There's no body shaking. All we can see is two girls crying.
This has nothing to do with christianity, it's just Hispanic paganism manifesting itself. It's their inherent inferior blood and low racial IQ that makes it impossible to understand true christianity so they sublimate it with pagan earth mother worship.
>This has nothing to do with christianity, it's just Hispanic paganism manifesting itself. It's their inherent inferior blood and low racial IQ that makes it impossible to understand true christianity so they sublimate it with pagan earth mother worship.
Christianity isn't a high IQ religion anon. That's why most of the worlds Christians live in Africa lol.
Christianity, and I mean true christianity is a white man's religion. It took the warrior spirit of the aryan overman and tempered it towards a purpose of creating and nurturing a high culture. Northern Europe after becoming Christian excised the brown semitic garbage from it and created a warrior cult that simultaneously asks its followers to conquer the lesser races, but also to excel in the scientific field and acquire knowledge of creation. That is why all the knowledge of the moder world, all the scientific discoveries were made by northern European Germanic races. They are guided by God to drag the brown proto man towards civilization, like a promethean giant changing nature according to his will.
>My middle-eastern religion IS wyte!!!
The amount of delusion in this thread is unreal
>created a warrior cult
What is the name of the warrior cult?
>Christianity isn't a high IQ religion
It doesn't need to be high IQ. That's the point. If it was high IQ, every moron would be dragging us to hell, but it's made simple, so that even the cells of your body understand it.
>Why do Catholics worship statues
They don't.
they do. to make an idol out handcraft is to worship it.
No it's not.
Ok, it's not up to me to judge. I'm just forwarding the Bibles message, which is that you should take idolatry seriously.
You haven't read the bible.
>Ezekiel 6:9 And they that escape of you shall remember me among the nations whither they shall be carried captives, because I am broken with their whorish heart, which hath departed from me, and with their eyes, which go a whoring after their idols: and they shall loathe themselves for the evils which they have committed in all their abominations.
You can't "prostitute after an idol" of Jesus or Mary.
I'm sure many people thought the same thing about idols of many different things.
You do understand that idolatry involves worshipping OTHER gods, right Anon?
Yes, a god of stone and wood and metal; a god you imagine onto a lifeless object. The antithesis of the living God.
>Yes, a god of stone and wood and metal; a god you imagine onto a lifeless object. The antithesis of the living God.
So what the Israelites did in the old testament?
What all Christians do when they pray in Churches?
yes, the apostate israelites that God punished for idolatry did those things, and the pagan cults that pretend to be christian do those things.
>yes, the apostate israelites that God punished for idolatry did those things, and the pagan cults that pretend to be christian do those things.
Lol, the Ark of the Covenant is Idol worship you stupid moron.
Christians literally worship the cross and churches they pray in. You're all hypocrites.
Muslims of course kissing the stone in the Kabaal
You're one of those science cultist hindus? Explains the spirit of confusion you're emitting.
>You're one of those science cultist hindus? Explains the spirit of confusion you're emitting.
Lol, Hindus are crazy too.
Can you please answer a simple Question Chirst-tard anon?
How is the Ark of the Covenant NOT idol worship...
Because it clearly is.
>the Ark of the Covenant
The ark represent what is required to make a wish.
1. Knowledge of what to do (10 command lines)
2. The ability to do (the vessel of the mana from heaven)
3. The motivation to do (Aaron's staff)
By definition, a wish is an objective, and is not idol. This is a formula for action. And is the exact opposite of the concept of being "idle".
Tell me where in the bible it says that the Ark has been worshiped.
>Tell me where in the bible it says that the Ark has been worshiped.
Joshua 7:6
"Then Joshua tore his clothes and fell facedown to the ground before the ark of the LORD, remaining there till evening. The elders of Israel did the same, and sprinkled dust on their heads."
>Complete foolishness. The cross is not an object of worship at all
Stop praying in front of crosses then. Stop obsessively placing crosses everywhere.
>Christians literally worship the cross and churches they pray in. You're all hypocrites.
Complete foolishness. The cross is not an object of worship at all, but a way to rember Christ's sacrifice.
>you should take idolatry seriously
Yeah, people can simply find relatability to "God" then forget theyre not it but contain aspects of it.
Cognition and perspective, it can play tricks on the mind and slowly brainwash you into acting Satanic, even while screaming Jesus is my Lord or whatever, a darker part of what religion can produce in people.
I never understood worshipping or preying to some specific image, maybe is a relatable manner or contrast, but to is very...Earthly.
...but some people are looking for that.
>Why do Catholics worship statues
Every sect of Abraham worships idols whilst they accuse others of doing the same thing.
You're all hypocritical idiots.
>everyone in this thread tried to ignore this trvthnvke
However imaginary the benedictions so derived by the worshipper from his image, the are most real as they redound to the glory and the power of that image they invest.
- Moncure Daniel Conway, Demonology and Devil-lore
Psychoprojective psychodrama.
1. I am the Way, the Truth, and the Light. No Man comes to the Father but by Me. (Said by the so-called "Son" of God.)
2. The kingdom of God is within you.
3. The road is wide, the gate is narrow.
Many are called, few are chosen.
4. Ask, and the door shall be opened.
6. There is no number 5.
In other words, work your ass off and be nice on your way up the road, make sure to pay respects to the guard at the gate, and ask politely.
Don't forget to say the magic word: "Pleeeeaaaaase?!"
Do people who parrot this "Catholics worship statues" bit honestly believe the Catholics think the statues can get up and walk around?
It's just a bit, like the Spanish Inquisition meme.
>Do people who parrot this "Catholics worship statues" bit honestly believe the Catholics think the statues can get up and walk around?
That's what all Christians literally think when it comes to apposing Christian denominations and Non-Christian religions.
Sunni Muslims and Othodox israelites also make identically stupid arguments.
You're all mentally ill shit eaters.
You have no fricking idea how stupid and credulous the average miracle story is. But to answer your question specifically, yes, that includes animated statues.
>Why do Catholics worship statues that can neither benefit them nor harm them?
>worship the Golden calf. God says it's bad.
>Worship the ark of covenant. ( A gold box with two cherubim ) God says it's good lol.
>Idol worship actually has nothing to do with whether or not worshipping objects is bad.
Idol worship is fine if the man-made object is approved of by god.
That's it.
This also explains why Muslims worship a black shit rock despite also claiming to be against Idol worship.
Abrahamics are abysmally low in IQ. They really are the stupidest shit stains to ever write books.
All power belongs to God but
Clement of Alexandria (c. 150-215)
"[T]he Word of God became man, that thou mayest learn from man how man may become God."[Primary 4]
"For if one knows himself, he will know God; and knowing God, he will be made like God"[Primary 5]
"[H]is is beauty, the true beauty, for it is God; and that man becomes God, since God so wills. Heraclitus, then, rightly said, "Men are gods, and gods are men." For the Word Himself is the manifest mystery: God in man, and man God"[Primary 5]
"[H]e who listens to the Lord, and follows the prophecy given by Him, will be formed perfectly in the likeness of the teacher—made a god going about in flesh."[Primary 6]
"And to be incorruptible is to participate in divinity..."[Primary 7]
God is infallible and all knowing. Mere mortal humans aren't.
But humans can speak on behalf of god as if they are actually god...
Pure Christ-tard brain rot.
God can give humans in heaven power to know things He wants them to. It's called being deified.
>God can give humans in heaven power to know things He wants them to. It's called being deified.
That's not the issue anon.
God giving mortal humans ON EARTH the ability to speak on his behalf is a complete contradiction to his Godhood that has been abused by countless religious figures and rulers.
No it's not. God gave power to Moses on Earth.
>No it's not. God gave power to Moses on Earth.
And gave power to the Pharaoh...
And he gave Moses a stammer...
And he gave power the followers of Chemosh and Chemosh himself. The god that defeated the israeli/Christian god...
>it's not dude, Jesus Christ literally says the israelites killed the messaegers of God, there are people allowed to talk in God's behalf
The israeli sect of Christianity was fighting against all the other israeli sects. Jesus was a israelite, all the apostles were israelites.
What is your point anon?
that there are people allowed to talk in God's behalf, wasnt that the point of what you were arguing?
>that there are people allowed to talk in God's behalf, wasnt that the point of what you were arguing?
Holy shit you Christ-tards are slow thinking dense morons.
NO, my point was that God allowing mortal humans to speak on his behalf contradicts his godhood. He isn't a god anymore.
well you state your points like a moron
what are you going to say?
God doesnt speak for himself so he isnt God anymore?
even kings send messengers for themselves but you see God doing this as something wrong? lmao
it's not dude, Jesus Christ literally says the israelites killed the messaegers of God, there are people allowed to talk in God's behalf
>t. highly controversial figure
In Exodus 25:18-20, on the other hand, God commands Moses to carve statues for a religious purpose: two cherubim which would sit atop the Ark of the Covenant.
Notice that these angelic images were to serve such an exalted purpose (not because the statues themselves were in any way intrinsically exalted but because of the use to which they would be put) that God was very exacting in the instructions he gave Moses as to the materials to be used and the posture in which they were to be carved. Similar divine commands to carve statues and embroider images of various religious objects are found in Exodus 21:6-9, Numbers 21:6-9, 1 Kings 6:23-28, and 1 Kings 7:23- 39. In each case, the statue or embroidered image was intended by God for a religious use.
19 The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. 2 “My lords,”
Dear Pussy God, please give me money. Amen. - Catholic.
>Dear Pussy God, please give me money. Amen. - Catholic.
> Every Christian...
If a statue or a painting can be blessed by miracles, or have magic powers, then why can they still be broken and destroyed?
Why could the snake shaft be broken or elisha's bones?
because they were idols, and in those examples their destruction were considered good and right in the text itself.
Those were healing relics.
God commanded people to be healed by them
>2 Kings 18:1~7 Now it came to pass in the third year of Hoshea son of Elah king of Israel, that Hezekiah the son of Ahaz king of Judah began to reign. Twenty and five years old was he when he began to reign; and he reigned twenty and nine years in Jerusalem. His mother's name also was Abi, the daughter of Zachariah. And he did that which was right in the sight of the LORD, according to all that David his father did. He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan. He trusted in the LORD God of Israel; so that after him was none like him among all the kings of Judah, nor any that were before him. For he clave to the LORD, and departed not from following him, but kept his commandments, which the LORD commanded Moses. And the LORD was with him; and he prospered whithersoever he went forth: and he rebelled against the king of Assyria, and served him not.
Gregory of Nazianzus
implores humankind to "become gods for (God's) sake, since (God) became man for our sake."[citation needed].
Likewise, he argues that the mediator "pleads even now as Man for my salvation; for He continues to wear the Body which He assumed, until He make me God by the power of His Incarnation."[19]
"Through the medium of the mind he had dealings with the flesh, being made that God on earth, which is Man: Man and God blended. They became a single whole, the stronger side predominating, in order that I might be made God to the same extent that he was made man."[20]
Basil of Caesarea stated that "becoming a god is the highest goal of all" [21]
because christianty = paganisim
Sounds to me like you should be a Catholic Shi'ite Al-Nawasib Communist to be firing at 120% from all cylinders
When someone only tries to make contradictions on what's in scripture, then he clearly doesn't have a point to make, other than spread confusion.
When did it all go wrong? Patristic writers were promoting the veneration of relics by claiming that great miracles were brought by the act of venerating them.
Are there any confirmed relics in circulation?