Why does God send his creation to hell?

God loves you unconditionally, true. But can you say you really love Him back if you do everything in your power to avoid His presence? Sooner or later, He'll take the hint: you want nothing to do with Him, and He'll respect that utterly and with absolute finality.

>If God loves us infinitely why would he damn us to eternal suffering for any deviation of his laws?
But do you love him? Do you seek him and try to please him? Have you ever given him the benefit of the doubt and tried understanding him in good faith?

the truth that exists in this world is not solely found in your head even tho your head is in the image of god. if you love truth then you love god and he knows you will only understand truth from a limited perspective given you are a limited being

this right here might be the real npc test.

im meaning the idea of truth. our interpretation of it will be different as we are trying to observe something eternal from a limited perspective but the root of what all who love truth strive for is the same. think of it in a platonic way, do you love the idea of truth given what you DO know about it and the reality of truth beyond your understanding being an eternal constant?

well then your moronic and severely underutilizing your capacity as a man

wtf do you think ego death even is?

so because you took some drugs and realized you have no idea what you are or what your doing here suddenly you dont exist and even more neither does objective truth? im lost on the thought process?

existence isnt really that tough, if you have ever appreciated the technique involved in anything you can appreciate the mindset you need to attack living with.

you petulant child. you think you deserve to exist, to partake and consume existence, at no cost to you. you should be ashamed of that statement dude. your basically every abuser ever complaining why people dont "love me as i am" while refusing to be someone worth loving. you disgust me

People don't believed in god because he doesn't manifest himself, according to your book God talked to many through the ages but for 2000 years he disappeared? God created a Church that fractionned into thousands of denomination ? Your God couldn't have been more clear?

you wouldnt accept it if god revealed himself to you. your pride and self centeredness would lead to psychosis to the point of loss of reason.

no homosexual, i believe there is truth beyond my understanding and the nature of that truth is good. you dont even have the IQ to understand that i believe in the CONCEPT of truth and that the concept (being limited) has selfevident characteristics given the natural world and the exclusion of lies. you dont believe in anything. your a piece a feces floating thru the wind, believing itself better than others because it refuses to settle down and become a tree. funny thing is it isnt a choice for you, you have refused to engage in appreciation or contemplation enough to exhibit any real agency and so here you are. crying about your strawman version of skydaddy while refusing to understand all this truth that surrounds you.

>truth is subjective
What does 1+1=?

I wasn't always like this. I always believe in objective truth. But then I had a burst, and I was told the truth is subjective.

>truth is subjective
What does 1+1=?

2+2=5

its not fairly specific dude. every plane of existence, every version of the universe has the idea of the number one/ the eternal. ontologically there is no existence without something with dominion over it. the polytheistic interpretation is that at the highest level of analysis within existence there are warring parties. the monotheistic interpretation is that it is unified. obviously its unified given the order we experience but regardless the monotheistic understanding is a good cultural IQ test and the story of human religion is the debate on the nature of that unified eternal existence (given we are limited and therefore see the many faces of kali based on our reference point, spiritually or physically). different religions have different opinions from various arguments but anyone who has actually went out of their way to understand the concept of god is aware the most important tenant is that we are limited and ontologically incapable of presenting god in his fullness.

if you have the IQ to concieve of truth, the eternal, the self and the other you have enough IQ to where god would want to see what you can bring to existence (given you take the nature of truth as good and dont try to frick everyone up)

dude the four things i listed are literally the things that make us rational animals. you only need an iq of like 60 and some animals have even been witness partaking in protoreligious events. what imsaying is that god is available to you even in complete blackness. all you need is the perception of anything which will lead to the reality of existence

dude what matters is what you believe is true. a misguided jihadist will be embraced by god if he is willing to admit he was wrong and submit to truth beyond his understanding while the jihadist who was in it for money and ass has committed an affront and was never the type of person god would want to hang out with. you can use your ability of reason to dictate what you believe would be right and wrong according to god (your denomination) but what matters is that you live authentically (doing the work to come up with the answers to the questions that present themselves to you in life and then live by those answers until a logically better answer arises).

if you want to find god, go create a definition (grounded in reason) for the good and orient your life in a way so that you act out that understanding (even when you deal with truth beyond your understanding/suffering)

no the first one doesnt go to hell and it seems your purposefully not understanding that. that first one goes to hell if he rejects his agency, the reality of truth, the other, the self etc. if your being psychotic about the nature of YOUR existence here, its only gonna get worse in an eternal sense

ill take you at your word. god as a category (independent of denomination) is generally understood as all powerful and loving, im trying to get across to you that each person will be judged differently for the same actions based on their mental state at the moment of the sin and the eternal mental state that emanates from that action (whether it be repentance or willful self damnation)

dont stress brother, god (if he exist for you secular gays) would be infinitely understanding and empathetic. to the point where our conception of perfect logic (jesus) is an act of self sacrifice for those he loves. what you need to fear is other men who would have you psychotic, malevolent and suicidal so that you are incapable of drawing strength from outside of yourself (making their conquest easier)

Don't bother, he's been shitting his pants this whole time with the fire and brimstone act.

I wanna watch him sperg some more so I'll make a statement that I believe is true:

" An entity that demands worship is not worthy to be worshipped."

Not when it also forces me to worship it with threats of eternal pain and suffering.

there is truth available to us as created being? are you stupid? just because the exact points of everything arnt always readily apparent to me doesnt mean i dont know anything. jesus christ it must be hell in your head. i can know i have free will. i can know existence is. i can know`i exist. i can know there is truth beyond my understanding. the lack of iq to understand categories is astounding. so num nuts, what have i said that was a lie. or what have i said that said i have knowledge that is not eternally self evident to everyone with the perception of existence?

> just because the exact points of everything arnt always readily apparent to me doesnt mean i dont know anything.
And the exact complexities of human motivation is one of such things that possess enough complexity that you shouldn't make blanket wide statements about them based on your own farts. You would know it if you weren't a midwit.
>i can know i have free will.
Lmao
> i can know existence is
I'm sure you can know for sure concepts on which any philosopher worth their salt would never speak with 100% confidence on.
> i can know`i exist.
That's the only thing I can give you.
>i can know there is truth beyond my understanding.
Yet you don't take it into consideration at all.
>or what have i said that said i have knowledge that is not eternally self evident to everyone with the perception of existence?
You make a claim to knowledge of human motivation on a cosmological scale, where you will put everyone who might possibly disagree with you under one blanket category. No one with a shred of actual understanding of other human beings makes such claims moron, because they understand that they don't sit in their heads and aren't them.

>wait wait wait. are you? as a grown man? denying your own free will?
I'm denying that you can for sure know that you have free will moron.
>you are whats wrong isn this world so i want to hear it. you think you dont have free will?
Maybe before trying to take down other people's arguments learn to write coherently? I'm not going to be a grammar Nazi, but your posts border on shit-scrawling on a rock.
>i do take it into consideration all throughout my arguemnt
You haven't done that at any point, you aren't even able to spell "argument" correctly, let alone make a valid one.
> why you have said a whole lot of nothing
Maybe your IQ is just too low to understand it.
> i want to show some of our younger audience how weak and craven men who take your position are
Bro, how old are you? You know that you can't use this site if you're under 18 right?

>give me a definition of free will and tell me how i cant know i have it?
Free will means that rather than our actions being predetermined, we are conscious actors in the world and can change future outcomes with our choices.
The reason why you cannot know if you have it is because we might very well be living in a universe where everything is predetermined by previous events and all of your choices are merely effects of those previous events with no input of your own, and because there is evidence that your brain makes choices before it even becomes conscious for you.
https://archive.is/fcvAn
>inb4 they say that it cannot be determined that all choices are pre-conscious
That's the exact fricking thing, "cannot be determined", as in, you are unable to know.

Is that enough for you, or do you need me to state even more of the obvious?
>im blessed to be smart enough where the merits of my ideas dont have to autistically conform to some rules so that they can have merit.
Unfortunately, your ideas don't have merit on their own either.

>the reality of symmetry in the natural world (i could explain that to you given your an idiot)
Go on then, please tell me how those two concepts relate.
>your version of free will is omnipotence (which is why your salty you dont have it because all this really is is you being salty about not being god) the actual definition of free will in a metaphysical created being is the capacity to accept eternal truths and allow them to inform the way you live or go psychotic.
That is not at all, the definition of free will, and my definition is not omnipotence. You're just making shit up to push it into your given definition.
> the scientific answer would be that you have the capacity to generate symmetry in that multiple outcomes are all equally likely to happen and the only deciding factor is you choice
That would be closer to an actual definition of free will, but once more, there is nothing to indicate that the deciding factor is one's choice, that this choice actually is "yours" (I like how you ignored the other part of my argument because it was inconvenient for you) or even that there can be multiple outcomes to begin with.

as for how those 2 thing correlate. proton decay is a fundamentally random process due to symmetry which breaks determinism. go read a book dude.

as for your definition of free will? what things cause your "free" actions to become determinid? if its outside influence then at what metric does it become not free? what ratio? the only logically consistent argument would be any uncontrollable influence breaks free will which requires omnipotence for free will to stand. so again, you dont know any real definitions for free will and your only experience is hearing others b***h about how they arnt god, free from consequences (even tho god willfully takes on the consequences of his creation)

its not a question of hidden variables. its a question of whether the likelihood of different things happening in a single system being the same. our universe is remarkable at creating these symmetries at multiple levels of analysis which as a matter of principle destroys determinism

cry some more that science agrees your failures are your own. as much as you hide and lie about it, me and you both know the truth so you cant say you didnt know.

i cant believe how evil you have to cling to determinism in the face of logic

i agree on principle with hidden variables always being a possibility.

determinism can always be saved if you include a multiverse like structure on top of whatever system your using but then the question becomes what is the role of a conscious agent in a singular timeline in relation to all possibilities, especially given our ability to hypothesis that very idea? it would be absurd to call whatever the individual is doing in that ultimetly deterministic universe as anything other than free will down a set of paths.

any single system that is capable of generating true symmetries within itself is fundementally indeterministic? this isnt magic bro, when did you go to school?

okay my bad. so imagine there is a ball at the top of a hill. it has an equal likelyhood to fall to one side or the other given that the axis of time necessitates the fall. at that moment determinism is broken (unless you introduce a multiverse where each outcome did happen) and the reason is because there is no way know beforehand what the outcome will be (beyond its 50/50) even with perfect knowledge of the system. a false symmetry would be more like a real ball on the hill, it has wind blowing on it, the ground is uneven and with perfect knowledge i could tell you where that ball is going. again our universe is remarkable at creating symmetries whether they be at the beginning of time where the forces of nature split along symmetries to particle decay to your mind, the beauty of nature is fascinating

no dude, im speaking in terms of a principle. just building off the other analogy, imagine i build a robot built off that initial symmetry. it turns into either a megazord, a house or decays based on 2 more symmetries i added into the process ive attached to the initial action. even if im deterministic in a system whose initial conditions were determined, the second i build that machine i break determinism for that system (even if it doesnt change the ultimate deterministic state of the sytem at large) now you could argue they are purely hypothetical but we have observed them so seethe.

..........so your saying you dont have free will unless you are independent of anything else which is akin to? BINGO omnipotence.

the symmetries broken at the beginning of time and quantum decay. less substantiated would be the super state (in a phase transition way) achieved by the brain capable of generating symmetries and the various interactions of elements as they transfer from higher to lower energy states and vice versa.

the decay occurs at the lowest unit of quanta within the fields of space and when entangled with others of that same unit they decay at an equal likelihood and follow no deterministic mathematical principle due to the symmetry created by the system (which is also intrinsic to any quantum system in the vein of the uncertainty principle in relation to measurements of the lowest unit of quanta within a system). and while you could argue quantum field theory doesn't accurately describe reality, the reality is that the randomness achieved by the symmetry has been observed in radioactive decay.

**pic related** i kid, im thinking nobody ever tld you that as a concept? determinism is moronic

dude your spreading psychosis across the internet about your lack of free will, your lucky i dont smite you full crusader style

>follow no deterministic mathematical principle
I don't understand. Are you just asserting this, or is this something that follows from our observation?
How did you rule out the decay being determined by (hidden) variables?

there will ALWAYS be the possibility of unknown variables. there could actually be 18 forces that interact in a way we perceive is the EM field. i could have thought i observed a circle roll down a hill but the aliens poofed me up and implanted the thought into my mind. its up to you to prove your baseless claims of hidden variables. especially when the mathematical model that is tied for most accurately describing the natural world (QMF and special relativity) necessitates symmetries AND observation follows the math in the example of radioactive decay.

were about to get to the point where i stop explaining nicely so lets keep this good faith

im not asserting it baselessly dumbass, there is a hypothetical way to break determinacy ->certain models of the 3+1 bulk include processes that take part in that hypothetical way (perfect symmetries)-> our most successful model is included in that list and observational data of quantum decay confirm that true randomness is a part of nature thru symmetry.

now what exactly is fricking wrong with you to be clinging to determinism so hard? is bringing this up with girls how you convince yourself your smarter then them and thats why they want nothing to do with you? the only next point to this argument is where you say the multiverse is real and so determinism is saved and i concede that point but assert free will (even if were not omnipotent) your to fricking low iq to have any real discussion on the subject and its pissing me off your answer is to assert more of what you dont know instead of contemplating what your being informed about for (obviously) the first time

a system being deterministic or not is not a fricking metaphysical concept, it is easily understood and computable. even the randomness given a limited initial state. you seem to have this quasi religious pseudo scientific understanding of the world and in attacking it im attacking you? awesome, you deserve it for getting to however old you are and never getting [past the understanding off Facebook memes about biological essentialism. the fact you are trying to equate the observed phenomena of symmetry and the possibility of hidden variables with no actual example of possibilities is laughable. your literally repeating buzzwords you got off youtube RN

plz go 0/1 irl

by figuring out if it adheres to deterministic mathematical principles or whether it can generate symmetries? are you moronic anon? you can literally just google this, im doing no great service telling you about this because this is standard understanding

it hasnt fully? ive given you an out, that most philosophers take, repeatedly now but your to moronic to understand. ill say it again dumbass, these conclusions from observed phenomena break determinism only if there isnt a multiverse like structure running every possibility. thats a valid interpretation given our understanding of QFT but then it introduces a quantifiable free will outside of symmetry. this conversation is so far above your head its laughable. what are you even arguing anymore beyond "nuh uh lalalalala"? oh yea, how its not your fault you suck so much.

your really moronic you know that? its a word with a definition in relation to what were talking about. i was about to beg you not to breed but we both know you have no say in the matter so im safe. regardless go read a book and stop trying to blame the universe for how much of a disgusting piece of shit you are. dont reply unless you have something constructive to say towards the argument besides crying. you haven't even argued at all how determinism survives a true symmetry and ive explained the observational data that substantiates symmetries being in nature so the onus is on you to actually contribute something beyond all of us pointing and laughing at you

dude its one of the best methods to break a deterministic system? a deterministic system can be described by math, its not magic dude wtf is wrong with you?
*pic related is you*

were looking at you having a mental break because i broke your world view in under 2000 characters on IQfy

you seem to know lots about hell, have you been there?

>you can learn far more about it reading Christian theology

I trust you're treating your slaves well then.

>That’s clearly what you want

Uhh, no?

I just want to jerk off in peace. I'm tired of dealing with people all the time, they're mean and never understand me. If God truly is disgusted by me, that would be something, because most of the time I feel like he doesn't give a shit about me.

What is required to exist according to your God? Do I look at the Catholic book? The Methodist one? Or maybe the Baptist? How about Mormonism? Or Seventh Day Adventists?

Which one of those are truly Gods law to you and the one's you don't believe to be true are those false Christians equally damned for not following what you perceive as God's true laws?

okay so you have been molested by these evangelicals and sola scriptura gays. i feel for you. someone could rape someone because they enjoy the suffering of others but another could rape as a moment of weakness recreating there own abuse when they were younger. which do you think god judges more harshly given he knows everything about you and your mental state? obviously the second one is easier to forgive while the other is an eternal sin that would lead to eternal damnation is not corrected for. if you believe in god you believe he is a person with perfect understanding and empathy and if you want to have a relationship with him you need to imitate those traits. all that to say, no the fricking devil didnt put dinosaur bones under the ground to test your faith and your not going to a lack of fire for jerking off. whoever told you that shit is going to hell if they dont stop trying to gatekeep peoples relationship with god.

God loves you unconditionally, true. But can you say you really love Him back if you do everything in your power to avoid His presence? Sooner or later, He'll take the hint: you want nothing to do with Him, and He'll respect that utterly and with absolute finality.

Okay, it's all my fault. I'll go to hell even though I don't want to, because I'm not being in the presence of the Lord (whatever that means).

you want that excuse as opposed to doing the work of struggling to survive in an eternal sense. absolutely disgusting and the epitome of the onions boi movement

Don’t bother. He can’t mentally accept that he is actively choosing to reject God because that would place the onus on him and he’s clearly not mature enough to accept that responsibility. His very reaction to us pointing out it’s a choice proves us right, but the unbeliever is too blind to see it.

>You are right. I don't want to stop sinning, but I don't want to go to hell either.
And that’s where the matter of choice comes in.
It sucks that you need to admit being a coomer is wrong and feel bad when you goon, but that’s the choice you need to make. If you do what I mentioned earlier (

https://i.imgur.com/Co6cEME.png

Admitting that you are a sinner, you are dead in your sin and are entirely reliant on Gods mercy, that you are infinitely separated from him and unable to earn your salvation. Accept that Christ was God, that he died on the cross for the forgiveness of men’s sins and try to live your life by following Gods commandments and following Christs example. (There is not specific degree to which you must follow Christ and it will vary to the ability to men and to what station they are called, but ideally try to turn from sun where you can and be better today than you were yesterday).

) you are naturally going to start to regret when you sin.

How do I know God doesn't want me to goon? He never appeared to me and told me to stop. How am I supposed to know the ancient religious text that says "no gooning" is the correct one while a different ancient religious text with a more lax view on sexuality is the wrong one?

We are hitting atheoid levels of mental gymnastics that shouldn’t even be possible.

%3D%3D

See

https://i.imgur.com/gxajsRg.png

>I'll just accept everything you just said a go to hell.
That’s fine. That’s clearly what you want, so stop seething about and asking “why?”, you know why.
>Maybe there I'll find someone who loves me as I am.
Love flows from God. You are choosing separation from God. In hell everyone is utterly self obsessed so no, no one, even the dearest loved one will be able to love you in hell.

Sadly his understand (along with many other Redditors) of hell is informed mostly by episodes of the Simpsons. Plus he thinks the most interesting thing you can do with your life is an hero, so his opinion isn’t worth much.

>So Nicholas Eymerich is in Heaven?
I’ll admit I had to Google him. I can’t say for 100% certain because he never know what is in someone’s heart but if he was a believing Christian when he died, yes!

He actually did but thanks for letting me know you're a c**t.

" God can give someone ignorant faith and repentance right before they die." Isn't an adequate answer to my question about how that relates to natives living on some island in a place like Papua New Guinea who've absolutely no knowledge of Christianity whatsoever.

My dad fricking rocks, I love my dad. You're projecting a little too hard there friend.

>you need a faith in the goodness of truth
I do agree, and one truth is that there is no definitive evidence of the existence of a higher power, why can't you accept that truth?

I can't you idiot, that's my whole point. I acknowledge that you cannot prove to 100% certainty that we are here because of Sky Daddy (tm). You're the one who has to find that proof and you can't. Existence is proof? How? Because your book says so? Give me a fricking break.

says the moron who has apparently been given the superintelligence to come up with the brilliant deduction that God exists because he says so.

ill help you. do you think existence is? yes. do you think thats true? yes. truth exist within existence. what is the nature of that truth ? is it good or evil? if you take good you get to partake in existence. if you think the nature of truth is evil then you get to play outside until you either cease to exist or choose existence.

before you ask the only person who gets to define existence and if your salty about that have fun in hell with lucifer.

I don't wanna die. I'd do literally anything God wants if it lets me live forever.

>God should not have to force you to be with him if you reject him.
He kinda does though, unless you think our world is godforsaken

>You reject him, he doesn't put you with him. It is as simple as that
Proven false by him putting me into this world, that also got God in it
I never had a say in this matter