Why haven’t the North Koreans overthrown their authoritarian regime after 80 years of insane 1984 style rule of over 20 million people?
Feels like this wouldn’t be possible with a western country. Are eastern cultures more compatible with authoritarian structures?
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Why is it wrong to have an authoritarian regime?
Liberal democracy is a historical anomaly, not the norm. In fact liberal democracy does more damage in most of the world's societies than good. People want to live their lives in peace and stability, not in some abstract concept of individual freedom.
lmao, you really chose the North Korea thread to make this argument?
>starves to death
eh, nothing personal, kid
last north korean famine was in 1998
>People want to live their lives in peace and stability
so they want to live in a social democracy?
we know that already
>so they want to live in a social democracy?
>we know that already
The sheer ignorance on display here, do you people honestly think there is only peace and stability in a democracy?
(Neo)liberal democracy is the final stage of development of a society, that's what Fukuyama meant by his end of history. It's basically post-ideological in the sense that it won't ever be replaced by something completely new, only things that have already preceded it (fascism, communism etc). Even right wingers agree that it's an inevitable fact for any society ("Cthulhu always swims left"), and you can see this happening in cities even in authoritarian places like China, Iran, Saudi Arabia
>that's what Fukuyama meant by his end of history.
Yes but he was wrong. Liberal democracy has massive flaws, it enables all groups no matter how crazy to push for a say, it's truth, and justice by consensus (eventually) democracy is basically mob rule. You're hoping that the vast majority of people are reasonable and just, that's a hope. But people are very malleble, China and saudis are letting the leash loose a little, but there not letting go totally into liberal democracy, China brings the big capitalists to heel so they don't subvert the state, or get involved into politics.
Any system can work, try getting 1000 men to all do the same thing when there are various interests all disputing what needs to be done, it'll be a chore, the same can be done in a autocratic state, and it will be done much easier. This is a reason for Chinese success.
What's worse? One good man in total control of a state? Or various degenerates all lining their own pockets and pushing their own agenda in a democracy? Both autocracys, democracys, have good and negative effects.
>This is a reason for Chinese success.
Chinese success literally relies entirely on American charity.
If America sanctioned China tomorrow hundreds of millions would starve by the end of the year
China would have an easier time starving than America would doing without tiktok.
Sad but true
wrong
Right
It's actually correct.
BAHAHAHA
actually using N korea as an example to your argument
what a fricking homosexual
yeah, it's like maybe the way things are portrayed to us about conditions there by our media isn't remotely accurate... weird.
Nice try, Kim Il-Suckoff.
LMAOOOO
Maybe it's not that bad, but the indentured servants stuck logging in Siberia for 30 year don't have much to work with if they wanted to rebel.
If you frick up they go after your legacy. So either be good or you son dies alone logging in Siberia.
The government has tanks, spies, and the people struggle to eat anything besides grass (no seriously).
Even the survivors who escape look gaunt and haggard when compared to their Southern counterparts, even after years after.
No doubt the average North Korean isn't incredibly well-fed, but the famine ended in the 90s, and the underground free market economy that the state turns a blind eye to has improved material conditions as well.
The state turning a blind eye to desperate people trying to survive isn't a good thing, you tard.
>80 years of insane 1984 style rule
Do you have a non western news source to back up your claims?
Look, I know there's definitely propoganda regarding North Korea. But come on, it's not like it's the only regime the West doesn't like. No Western source claims Iran, Venezuela, or Cuba to be like this. They're dictatorships too that are heavily sanctioned.
The only reason North Korea even exists today is as a Chinese buffer state fed scraps- and even they are losing their patience.
North Koreans were better off than South Koreans (despite literally the entire country being flattened by American bombing) from the end of WW2 until the 80's. By the times things changed, the North Korean government had tightened its grip too much for an effective internal resistance to overthrow them
South Korea was under an authoritarian military junta too until 1972 though. That’s why they also had stunted growth
Because it's the most KINO nation of modern history
Sanctioned by 99% of the world while facing a constant existential threat south of the border, they still manage to make the ZOG seethe endlessly at their mere existence, their is no bigger underdog than the norks
"She who weeps least dies like a beast"
North Korean saying
Because they know that it would lead to degeneracy.
>Are eastern cultures more compatible with authoritarian structures?
100%
Chinks are the most slave-mentality of any race
>continues to be controlled by the israelites and flooded with migrants from the Third Word.
>thinks chinese people are one ethnicity
>thinks chinese people are a race
>uses the concept of race at all
you're a slave to brainwash
>muh Chinese
Seethe harder Chang. Your people have no history and never will
I am not Chinese, never been to China and i dislike almost everything about chinese culture. I just like truth, whereas you just like feeling superior.
>I just like pilpul, because I hate the white race.
FTFY
>i am pretending to be moronic because i don't know how else to get attention
>racism GOOD
>NOOOO WTF YOU'RE ANTI-WHITE
Embarrassing.
>Defies the entire planet combined every day despite being a tiny dirty poor nation
>Willing to use any means necessary to defend their independence,
>Extremely militaristic culture, entire population is trained for war with 1 in 20 in active service
I'm sure living there sucks but that's the opposite of slave mentality, they're like the pop culture version of Sparta but for real.
If Americans had the mentality of North Koreans the entire planet would be fricked.
They are slaves, they don't even have a choice in whatever they do in their lives, either you bow to the fat statues of the kims and gave it flowers or you go to prison, most slave nation on the planet earth
You always have a choice, if the regime had no support there's no way it would still exist.
People in north korea don't have a choice, other than try escaping to the south
They do have some agency, if the people were as western media would have you believe the state would simply collapse
Most chinese don't even like north korea, are they western media too?
>They do have some agency
Yeah no shit they can move their body all they want, they can't choose to not obey because they get send to prison or worse, they don't have guns, they don't have resources, they don't have anything to fight back against the regime, complete broken morale.
>they don't have guns
Five percent of the population is in the army.
Realistically civilians with guns don't win revolutions, the army does.
>what is the american and french revolution
Why are you even on IQfy
North korea has one the lowest guns per capita on the planet earth, most people in the army doesn't even have access to guns either
Yeah, exactly. What is the American and French revolution? Look that up.
Who do you think made the storming the of the Bastille possible?
Do you even know who George Washington was before he was leader of the Continental army?
Every revolution that every worked required the involvement of at least some amount of the preexisting military. Civilians on their own do not stand a chance, guns or not.
Yeah, that's why they liquidate the families of those who leave. So the house of cards doesn't collapse.
Have the Kims taken away their free will?
No. If this could happen in Romania there's nothing stopping the same in North Korea.
>there's nothing stopping the same in North Korea.
China and the CCP is obviously. There's a reason why the Chinese satellites (DPRK, Vietnam, Laos) stuck around and stayed communist while the Soviet ones didn't, hint: one collapsed and the other didn't
To add to this Gorbachev explicitly said the USSR will not intervene in the abolition of communism in the eastern bloc, Ceausescu was actually begging the red army to help him even though he condemned the invasion of Czechoslovakia two decades earlier
Laos and Vietnam are not really communist anymore, the Viet minh ideology was much more centered around independence
Bro, the CCP don't care about Juche. If Kims generals wanted to shoot him and institute a less insane government that would only benefit China.
>There's a reason why the Chinese satellites (DPRK, Vietnam, Laos
If you think Vietnam is or was Chinese satellite you're completely delusional about the situation.
China tried to coup Kim Fatty and replace him with his uncle who would establish a compliant puppet state but it didn't work and he became (literal) dog food.
The so-called influence from China on North Korea is a lie.
That would be the case if the PRC has a couple of military bases in North Korea, commanded the military defense, have its political elites graduate from top Chinese universities, spread plastic surgery in the population so they look more Chinese, and let 49% of them pray in the name of Lord Xi Jinping on a daily basis, while manipulating the political leaders to jump off bridges or skyscrapers every couple of years while literally owning a large share of the state enterprises.
That's what the "influence" really looks like.
Chinese influence on NK amounts to "if they really wanted to for some reason they could end their existence by force". All they have is a sledgehammer.
>Vietnam
>Chinese satellite
anon, I...
>they're like the pop culture version of Sparta
I'd say they're more like the actual, historically accurate Sparta.
There's no independent power base to challenge the rule of Kim Fatty and his buddies, just a mass of emaciated half starved slaves. All other replies in this thread are one butthurt tankie resetting his phone to samegay.
North Koreans are based because they(like other east asians) have racial awareness and aren't cucked like whites, NK is probably the purest ethnostate in the world
Because Kim is based
I am more liable to believe that most of what we hear about North Korea is ridiculous propaganda and that it's actually a pretty nice place to live. I believe that's a lot more plausible than the racist notion that the people of North Korea are unable to think for themselves or are somehow inherently submissive.
The same goes for the PRC.
But even the tourist areas controlled by the government look like a shitty dystopia
Not enough billboards and neon signs, am I right, my fellow consoomer?
For a long time North Korea was in parity with South Korea. The South really started to surpass them in the 70s. Then NK still kept going thanks to Comecon. When the USSR crashed in 91 and the aid stopped thats when NK started going to shit.
>For a long time North Korea was in parity with South Korea.
Not really. Life was always poor, shitty, and extremely regimented, and living standards were only semi-tolerable (by Eastern bloc standards) in Pyongyang which was a privilege and normal people couldn't just live there. Most of the aid they got from the USSR went to military and strategic use, nothing went to improve living standards.
I wonder how the average soviet citizen felt about how much of their country's money was being spent on gibs for every third world dictator who paid lip service to gobbunism
>Feels like this wouldn’t be possible with a western country. Are eastern cultures more compatible with authoritarian structures?
Well it wasn't possible, that's exactly what happened in Romania. Ceausescu tried to replicate the cult of personality rule he saw on state visits to DPRK and China and as a result Romania was the only country to have an actually violent regime change/revolution in 1989 (along with Yugoslavia but that was a much different process). Asians are a whole lot more prone to collectivism than Europeans, that is well known and established throughout history
Ceausescu fell because he neglected the Romanian army in favor of the state security apparatus so when the end came, they had no interest in fighting to save him.
Still it was the only soviet satellite where it actually came down to a violent uprising because he would not relinquish his powers and kept harsh Stalinist conditions up to the very end when almost all the rest of the eastern bloc was liberalizing somewhat. Not even Honecker in East Germany got the same treatment. Romania was basically white people juche in all but name only
>romanians
>white
I don't get the appeal of liberal democracy, it causes an enlargement of the state eventually. Even the founding fathers warned against this, and said more or less that no system is perfect, thus you must be prepared to change it, by force if neccesary. A constitutional republic is much better.
Juche is objectively just the true philosophy. Think about it for a second, what does your average North Korean need, I mean really need? Capitalism legitimately just cannot compete.
>Water
Got it
>Food
Yup, grass and rats, they keep it humble.
>Shelter
0 percent homelessness
>Jobs
100 percent employment
>Women
Trad
>Entertainment
Weed and meth are legal and abundant.
If it is so good go live there
what is Kim doing to those lesbians
>Women
>Trad
It depends on how you look at it, but they ain't housewives. Female labor force participation there is 77%. It's 57.4% in the United States.
Jaws of titanium
i wish i had a qt nork gf
do they live in a constant state of fear and submission? asking for a friend
they live in a constant state of purity
https://www.academia.edu/43666683/Weathering_the_Storm_Toppled_by_the_Storm_North_Koreas_Non_transition_Compared_with_the_Transitions_of_Romania_and_Albania_1989_1991
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/269661444_Immunity_to_Resistance_State-Society_Relations_and_Political_Stability_in_North_Korea_in_a_Comparative_Perspective
Read these and find out. Tldr you don't just overthrow a system by disliking it. There need to be certain conditions, organization of society and so on. None of this exists in the DPRK.
Pointless links. I already covered everything in
The general population has no guns to overthrow them, that's the whole point of banning guns and gun control, totalitarianism.
>Why haven’t the North Koreans overthrown their authoritarian regime
The uncomfortable truth that most in this thread are avoiding ist that the North Korean people are generally happy and content with their lives
>if only you knew how bad things really are
they have cultivated very strong ideological underpinnings remember Korean people have an average IQ of 105 the men running the regime are very smart and competent
North Korea is a product of its history. The communists would have likely won out in Korea in the late 40s before the war and it took brutal repressions in the south (hundreds of thousands killed in political purges) and U.S. military intervention to prevent that. The resulting war, which was at first a civil war, devastated North Korea.
It's not really a bad country. A modern-day Sparta is a good analogy.
But don't underestimate the power of post-WWII "third world" nationalism and the impulse to not be anyone's b***h. This is a kind of radically left-nationalist thing with its roots in Marxism-Leninism (although in a twisted form based on the structural international situation) and first rule of Tank Club is that economic substructure produces political superstructure, so "socialists" and "nationalists" are not that different from each other because they all favor strong state regulation to protect large national enterprises... and North Korea wants to protect theirs from Uncle Sam.
However, due to numerous internal and external mechanisms, the "nationalists" are divided between and within themselves so that others follow Uncle Sam. From the "socialist" countries, however, they actually can get rid of the big brother and actually be independent if they want due to different economic and political structures. This doesn't make the "socialist" countries completely innocent, because after all, the theory doesn't always equate to reality, but that's what's going on here.
Kim got Perturbator to make him a sick ass theme?
Based.
>20 million people could cease to exist and absolutely nothing in the world would change for the worse
makes me think.
We could still have this in Europe with Albania
Because you and the West are lied to about North Korea.
The origin of all rumors associated with the DPRK declaring kim jong un or other rulers to be living gods originate with radio free asia or south korean tabloids. every single stupid statement ranging from "state media says kim jong un doesnt poop" to "state media says kim il sung got 20 hole in ones first time golfing" all uniformly come from unsubstantiated "anonymous whistleblowers" from either a news organization that is publicly funded by the CIA or a South Korean sensationalist tabloid that finds its audience in nationalists who will believe every silly lie they cook up. they are all pieces of propaganda brought to you by the US government about its enemies. do not fall for it.
the us government's method of opposition damage control is to sanction them into famine and economic stagnation and then go "SEE? the failures of communism.............."
Yeah sure many points are just sensationalist nonsense but there is a extreme cult of personality nonetheless. Even other socialist countries all the way back in the 80s and 70s complained about this. Fricking Soviet citizens saw DPRK as a ridiculous dystopia. The three lifelong dynastic rule succession? Isn't that a bit much? The Ten Principles for the Establishment of a Monolithic Ideological System, official doctrine, especially the Kimirsen-era version? Isn't that a little too far?
>Fricking Soviet citizens saw DPRK as a ridiculous dystopia.
The DPRK survived and the USSR didn't though.
It is a bit much and is "ugly" but I think it's because North Korea is in an extreme situation, the peninsula is divided, and they've been under decades of extreme sanctions so the economy serves the military, and what would've been a more normal development like China or Vietnam got twisted / halted hence the element of feudalism to it. But that's not so crazy per se because the British monarchy is compatible with Western liberal democracy. This is the socialist version of it, although obviously really intense, but imagine if we lived in a world where Britain was divided after a horrific war and the southern half was capitalist and had the queen and Europe was a socialist superstate bearing down on it, and I think it would come out looking really distorted.
I suspect the reality is that DPRK's governance structure runs much like a communist party, and while Kim is the "monarch" who plays his role, much of it ceremonial, he consults with his advisors and they reach decisions together. Obviously he was groomed into the job and is being guided by these older guys in the higher echelons of the WPK.
>Kim is the "monarch" who plays his role, much of it ceremonial, he consults with his advisors and they reach decisions together
The current one sure, his grandfather definitely not and idk about Jong-il.
>The DPRK survived and the USSR didn't though.
Being in prison is also proven to increase lifespan on average, but few people would voluntarily get locked in one.
And I don't think being in an "extreme situation" necessitates that situation. People have agency and Kim Il-sung personally was a major driver in shaping how the country looks today. And it's not like it only became like this yesterday. When half the world was socialist, when it bordered the two largest socialist states, when it was more economically and military powerful than the South, it still resorted to these exact same measures, hell, in the 70s and 80s it was significantly more repressive and closer to what Westerns imagine it to be today than in the last 30 years, when it stands almost all alone, sanctioned by everyone and only one pseudosocialist state on its border, one with fluctuating attitudes toward it.
>And I don't think being in an "extreme situation" necessitates that situation. People have agency and Kim Il-sung personally was a major driver in shaping how the country looks today. And it's not like it only became like this yesterday. When half the world was socialist, when it bordered the two largest socialist states, when it was more economically and military powerful than the South, it still resorted to these exact same measures, hell, in the 70s and 80s it was significantly more repressive and closer to what Westerns imagine it to be today than in the last 30 years, when
Pyongyang after the 80s was fairly impoverished and lacks today the refined methods of totalitarian control it had back then (as seen in the USS Pueblo crew's account of the Orwellian DPRK of the 1960s). The regime doesn't really try to micromanage its citizens' lives to the same extent nowadays, simply behaving yourself and not annoying Kimmy is generally enough to avoid getting gulaged.
>When half the world was socialist, when it bordered the two largest socialist states, when it was more economically and military powerful than the South, it still resorted to these exact same measures
North Korea didn't want to be dominated by either China or the USSR. That's the main reason. Vietnam is far away from Russia but could use the USSR to contain China without also worrying about the USSR taking control, while North Korea neighbored both while confronting South Korea and the U.S., so it developed its own ideology that both counters its main enemies while also distinguishing itself from its two closest "friends."
Obviously, ideology can't get the job done by itself. So in reality, North Korea is trying to cosplay the Chinese experience by doing basic industrialization (done), then developing nukes for national security, and then introducing the economic reforms, which I suspect might be more like Vietnam in the long run which maintained more state control than China did after Deng's reforms.
Why would they?
Mankind's natural state is beneath an authoritarian regime and modern democracy is completely alien to most people.
The Korean people have lived their entire history beneath a king who in turn paid tribute to a monarch. Briefly, they lived beneath the Japanese Emperor. So to a people who never knew freedom, what would they be longing for? They're used to this.
It's like when people ask why the Russians were okay with communists taking over the country, stifling free speech and association, limiting people's freedom of movement, and censoring the press. The fact of the matter is, the Tsar did all of the exact same shit, so they didn't give a frick because they never knew anything else.
If you live in a western country with these perceived freedoms, you're the anomaly.
Modern bureaucratic managerial totalitarian states are nothing like anything "authoritarian" that existed before 1800 or even 1900. If you read ultraconservative royalists/legitimists etc of the era you would be very surprised to see how unexpectedly close they sound to today's lolberts.
https://carlsbad1819.wordpress.com
>Civilized life is the anomaly
Yeah, we know. Its still the right and just way for self-respecting human beings to live. Those that wish to live under authoritarian regimes are giving up their humanity in the name of security. Which is fine - just don't go around claiming to be equal to those who are willing to take responsibility for themselves as sovereign citizens.
It's a better regime than you though.
Proles don’t matter; surplus elites matter in terms of fomenting insurrection. And they’ve done a good job at nit over-producing elites.
>Chinese leader Hua Guofeng made a visit to Pyongyang in May 1978. At a large rally in Kim Il Sung Square, Hua called on the US to withdraw from South Korea so the country might be reunited.
>Deng Xiaoping visited the DPRK four months later. Like all foreign guests, he was expected to lay a wreath in front of the giant gold leaf-covered statue of Kim Il Sung. Deng was not terribly happy at Kim's huge personality cult after having experience the excesses of Mao worship in China over the past decade or having to do this and he reportedly remarked "This is what they've been doing with all the aid money we've given them over the years?" He suggested they might be better served spending that money on improving their living standards.
>The Norks got the message apparently, for the gold leaf was quietly scraped off the Kim statue afterwards.
I watched a Chinese guy travelling in the DPRK and unlike the western documentaries, he actually gets to talk to regular people.
They are fierily nationalistic and don't like Japan and the US. They also actually admit economic conditions are better in SK, but the bulk of them are patriotic enough to see it through. Of course anyone not that keen just leaves. This is all in urban areas though, in rural areas most people probably just focus on survival.
Most people not keen on it don’t leave because they have family who will be punished for them leaving since they aren’t there to take it
A lot of people just get on with their lives. The government provides everyone a job and you can raise a family and that's your life. I'm not planning to move to North Korea but it's not the worst country in the world to live in. It could always be worse! They're not getting bombed (yet).
Also morning exercises:
why can't they hold hands
It's scary how clean North Korea is. It's like they're so brainwashed they can't even litter, like that part of their brains has been surgically removed. They don't even have food residue on their clothes because they'd get sent to a re-education center.
Well... could be awesome brainwashing technology... or they run a full-employment economy where they just employ a bunch of people to clean the streets everyday.
>solar powered street cleaning
how the frick is a third world shithole beating the entire west on this
Looks like you finally understood what's the purpose of gun control, OP.
They see South Korea which is ruled by insane feminists and America which has literal pedophile rapists in power and don’t want that
Frick off leave please
Have you read 1984? Or even seen the film? It doesn't end with the government getting overthrown
Umm bro, that’s a hecking movie, this is real life.
1984 is about as realistic as Avengers: Endgame.
You're a real pleb if you've just watched the movie but don"t even know about the book. Orwell makes very observant socio-political commentary on modern authoritarianism.
how can it be modern if he was from 1930?
1984 was written in 1949, and the totalitarian regime in it was inspired by Nazi Germany and the USSR.
We didn’t see the end of 1984 though
>Why haven’t the North Koreans overthrown their authoritarian regime after 80 years of insane 1984 style rule of over 20 million people?
Because it's hard to do.