Why is Al-Andalus still perceived as an invasive, alien body lodged into the body of Europe when it was present for seven centuries - longer than there has been a unified spain? By this logic, are the germanic peoples of europe still "foreign invaders"? Are the japanese invading ainu lands still?
>By this logic, are the germanic peoples of europe still "foreign invaders"?
Yes.
They were Muslim, simple as
You can say it’s not fair but it is what it is.
>inb4 Turkey
Yeah Turkey is an odd case of a Muslim country considered European. So is Albania but whatever.
>Turkey
>considered European
...by whom?
>So is Albania
Albania is a special case because it is technically in europe but as a cultural and demographical unit it was so insular that it isn't the best example if you want to push the whole "islam has been a part of europe for centuries" thing. It was the "here be dragons" of Europe until the end of the 19th century.
Turkey being European is not even debatable
Turkey is not european, It's time to swallow this redpill
it is, and by literally everyone in europe
turkey is as european as arabia. that is: not at all
No it isn't. Turkey was admitted forcibly by US pressure particularly to destabilize both the EU and Russia. We want you both broken and subservient, not powerful, isolationist or self-sufficient.
Nobody ever seriously considered it to be part of Europistan, the narrative was always forced.
Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit.
turkey isn't part of the EU. the only thing it's part of is NATO, and that's because we wanted to put nukes on russia's doorstep.
It's not even debatable that turkey isn't Europe.
Constantinople maybe.
>Turkey is an odd case of a Muslim country considered European.
What the frick are you talking about?
Turkey has its foot in the door but is not European.
MOJA BOSNA PONOSNA
No European considers Turkey European. 97% of their land mass is in Asia and their culture is islamic.
This is a moronic comparison. Germanics were Europeans whereas Andalusians were Arab invaders.
Germanics were snowBlack person barbarians, while Arabs brought civilization to Iberia.
> t. Latinx American who thinks he's med
Nop, wey like germans here
Most of the Muslim population of Al-Andalus were Muladis (Native Iberians)
They also spoke Mozarabic, a romance language
You wish Iberian troon.
I12646
Y-DNA: CT
I12650
Y-DNA: CT
I7426
Y-DNA: CT
I7427
Y-DNA: E1b1a1
I7498
Y-DNA: E1b1b1a1b1a
I7457
Y-DNA: E1b1b1a1b1a
I3807
Y-DNA: E1b1b1b1
UE2298/MS060 (Elite Sample)
Y-DNA: E1b1b1b1
I7500
Y-DNA: E1b1b1b1
SP9269
Y-DNA: E1b1b1b1
SP7080
Y-DNA: E1b1b1b1a
SP7089
Y-DNA: E1b1b1b1a
I12644
Y-DNA: E1b1b1b1a1
I12649
Y-DNA: E1b1b1b1a1
I8145
Y-DNA: J
I12514
Y-DNA: J2a
I12515
Y-DNA: J2a
I12648
Y-DNA: R1b1
I3809
Y-DNA: R1b1a1a2a1a2c
I7423
Y-DNA: R1b1a1a2a1a
>haplomemes
now do their admixture analysis, very interested on that elite sample
>if Arabs rape our women
>we win
That's not how it works.
where is this from?
Valencia.
>SP9269, SP7080 and SP7089 are from nimes in france
Nimes was part of Andalusia back then.
>Y-DNA: R1b1a1a2a1a2(xR1b1a1a2a1a2c)
This sample predates Andalus.
>also UE2298/MS060 is not an elite samples
Cope.
>Nimes was part of Andalusia back then.
they are not andalusians
>This sample predates Andalus.
it doesn't, it's dated 677-866, al andalus was founded in 711
>Cope.
yes, you are coping, we only know that he ate more meat, he could have been a butcher for all we know, or maybe just a rich merchant and not really an elite
SP9269, SP7080 and SP7089 are from nimes in france
>https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/figures?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0148583
and you forgot
I3585
Y-DNA: R1b1a1a2a1a2(xR1b1a1a2a1a2c)
also UE2298/MS060 is not an elite samples, the study never mentions it's status, only that the person ate more meat than other samples, he could have been a butcher for all we know, or maybe just a rich merchant and not really an elite
also he was autosomally not exactly a pure northwest african
> my autism is an argument
astrology isn't real brother
you dumb frick, that's samples on haplomemes of a muslim burial.
Nafrisisters...
Albanian sisters... I thought the Sitifis wasn't a Phoenician.
This, i would say probably 95% of it were iberians converted or iberians under muslim control (mozarabes)
No shit. The elites were Arab and Berber
Germanic people originated from central asia where present day kazakhstan is located, that is why every germanic person has trace mongol genetic heritage particularly from the paternal side
It was muslim and it originated from a north african invasion. Not very european. Emphasis on the muslim part.
So it comes to religion? Christianity didn't originate in Europe either.
*comes down to
Christianity became pretty European after a while.
Islam was also developed around European influences as well when it came in contact with them (notably the Islamic theologians that were influenced by Plato and Aristotle, as well as those who originated from Al-Andalus.
Likewise, Islam shaped European societies that it interacted with as well. The same kind of interplay took place between the religion and culture of Europe wherever Islam was introduced, just like Christianity.
If Islam had spread further, it would have adopted a more explicitly European character just like Christianity. So I disagree with the distinction you are making here.
>if
yeah it didnt happen like that
It became european assimilating the european values, mythology and traditions
Christianity was easily molded to suit European needs.
Europe was shaped by Christianity just as much as Christianity was by Europe.
The same who pushed the "judeo-christian" civilization term will now push for "islam was always present in Europe!!11!"
It's tiresome
but dude look at these albanian hillbillies!
There is no denying that Islam is a part of European cultural history. But there is no need to feel uneasy about it. Islam should be treated as a religion of peace and tolerance, and not as a “barbaric” religion. Its doctrines do not justify violence. Islam does not preach hatred. The majority of Muslims live their lives in peace with the non-Muslim majority, and even accept and protect the rights of other religious minorities. In this sense, Islam does not pose a threat to European culture. In a globalized world, Islam should be welcomed, not as a separate phenomenon, but as part of European culture and history.
Lmao wtf Islam has been the enemy of europe since 600 AD and the gulliable euros who have allowed them in have turned their metropolitan areas into shitholes
There is no reason to assume that Islam couldn’t integrate into contemporary European society. We are a continent who has very different ways of thinking and living. We don’t have one dominant religion but instead a mixture of religion, faith, history and practice. We should embrace this diversity and work with it instead of ignoring it.
As stated before, in modern day Europe, there is no legitimate reason to believe that European culture and Muslim culture are incompatible. The fact that there are Muslim enclaves all over Europe indicates a different trend in people’s minds; they see Islam and the West as compatible, as European Muslims prove time and time again with their strong embrace of European traditions, as well as European social norms. These enclaves serve as proof of the great interdependence that exists between modern European and Muslim countries. There is a reason why Germany and Britain cannot exist without the Muslim community and the Muslim countries cannot sustain their economies without the aid of the West. This interdependence is only going to grow in the future.
based
>There is no denying that Islam is a part of European cultural history.
As an intrinsic other, an enemy. A continuation of the oriental despot archetype in western culture.
>Its doctrines do not justify violence.
Do you mean the Quran? Pretty sure that does justify violence to some extent. On the whole, everyone should eventually be a dhimmi/muslim thing. Apart from self-defense, I mean.
>In a globalized world, Islam should be welcomed, not as a separate phenomenon, but as part of European culture and history.
Then we cannot ignore that part was mostly antagonistic to that of the west. It is very much foreign. Except if you are one of the caucasian peoples or some Turkic, and even then they didn't get along with the christians.
Islam is literally the historical enemy of Europe.and specially the historical enemy of France, Spain, England, Portugal, Poland, Greece etc And MENA culture is pretty much the opposite of the european one. any basic stat on that shows it.
5/5
(You) for effort
They were muslim while the rest of Europe was Christian
I find it hard to believe you don't realize this, are you being purposely obtuse? Is there a point?
Are you really an invader if you've been present in a land for centuries, just because you profess to a different religion than the rest of the continent?
>Are you really an invader if you've been present in a land for centuries
As long as there's someone to fight you back, yes. The Muslims at no point did they ever controlled the entire peninsula.
So you'd say that the real problem is that the cultures never hybridized in any real sense and the two factions remained belligerent practically from beginning to end.
The funny part is they did hybridized, there are Christian kings with tombs written on hebrew, latin and arab just to mention it
Kings wanting to show off to all their subjects doesn't mean that the plebs hybridized in any real sense.
their cultures did to some extent, there were villages of Christians who hide and protected their muslims neighbours when the Christian kings ordered their exile, for instance
yeah well that's true
yet it's relevance in Spain was due to the islamic invasion
Here
>this one unsourced anecdote means that everyone was butt buddies with each other
Come on.
Never said that
>yet it's relevance in Spain was due to the islamic invasion
How relevant has Arabic been in Spain since the consummation of the Reconquista? Not OUTSIDE of Spain, inside of it, tell me. Especially since Isabella and Ferdinand imposed Castilian as the official language of Spain.
Not very, but the morisco menace probably kept writing in it.
>Isabella and Ferdinand imposed Castilian as the official language of Spain.
They did that? Also I don't know where are you going with that but logically arabic was gone for good by then, I think it never was the common language even during the islamic kingdoms but one used by the intelectual elite (?) alone
The common language was probably Mozarabic, now extinct. It was related to Aragonese rather than to Castilian, Catalan, or Galician. For the record.
But even then, Hebrew, Latin and Greek were right up there in importance, it's not like Arabic was ever the lingua franca of Iberia or as if it was the ONE language that every intellectual had to learn like English is nowadays.
I guess that's the case, yeah
>Christian kings with tombs written on hebrew, latin and arab just to mention it
Sounds cool, got a pic?
There are many example of the two cultures influencing eachother but they never became a single one
Arabic is not an inherently Islamic language, as much as Muslims would jump over the walls claiming that it is, Arabic and indeed, Arabian identity as a whole, existed for far longer before Islam was ever a thing, and there were obviously Arab Christians before Islam.
For anyone's interest there's a huge 6 volume series by this guy called Irfan Shahid about the pro-roman ghassanids and the arab-roman connections from before their times. You can get them for free on zlib and archive dot org.
>Arabic is not an inherently Islamic language
No one claims this.
>No one claims this.
Muslims do.
No, they don't.
https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-Arabic-is-the-language-of-Allah-Arabic-was-not-from-the-beginning-in-fact-it-evolved-from-Phoenician
>So you'd say that the real problem is that the cultures never hybridized in any real sense and the two factions remained belligerent practically from beginning to end.
Yep, this is a historical fact, since the first invasion in the 7th century all the way to 1492 there were always Christians resisting and fighting back in the peninsula, pushing the Muslims further and further south until they finally expelled them all, and the inquisition made sure to erase any remaining Islamic influence.
Oh no, there is/was hybridization, it's just that the north never stopped seething and never gave up. And they ended up winning.
yeah? At least in the view of the people at the time.
It's not even a matter of being an "invader" or not either, they were simply heathens and so it was believed they needed to convert or be expelled
Indigenous peoples in Bosnia were persecuted for professing an off-brand semi-Christian gnosticism just because it was branded heresy. Same thing happened centuries later after the Reformation in some places too. It had nothing to do with who invaded whom, but that the religion professed was incorrect
Visigoths were Arians, not Catholic Cristians.
They converted
By the time of the Muslim invasion, they had converted to normal catholicism.
Its also to be said that all Andaluz fostered adoptionism in its christian populance.
>Visigoths were Arians, not Catholic Cristians.
So what? They were still Christians, if a land that was controlled by the Sunnis suddenly gets controlled by the Shias, does that mean it seizes to be controlled by Muslims? The only reason you'd make this objection would be if you don't think Arians are Christians.
>Why is Al-Andalus still perceived as an invasive, alien body lodged into the body of Europe when it was present for seven centuries - longer than there has been a unified spain?
Are you moronic? Have you ever seen a timeline of Al-Andalus? The Christians had already taken back over half of the peninsula by the 12th century. The only, and I mean the ONLY territory that was actually controlled by the Muslim for 7 solid centuries was Granada, that's literally it.
But since when did Christians "controlled" Iberia? I'd say from around 400, when Christianity became the state religion. That means Iberia had been "controlled" by Christians for 300 years by the time Arabs invaded. It had been controlled by Germans for about the same time. That means by 1100 Muslims had been in control of their half of Iberia for 400 years - longer than Christians ever had by that time.
you cannot be muslim and european
You aren't European.
Roman conquest was a catastrophe for Iberia, Arab conquest was a blessing.
The greatest tragedies to befall the iberian peninsula are the reconquista and the fascist victory in the spanish civil war.
Cope Ahmed. The Reconquista was the best thing to happen to Spain.
You will never have a Muslim western-central europe.
kys goat-fricker
They were literally ruled by non-Europeans for most of the time
See:
Why are they so obsessed with iberians lmao
t. German
Why are Iberians in denial about their African blood
t. Norwagian
No, they are not like you mr "norweigian"
I'm sorry mr. Alemán but Iberians don't look like us Europeans.
>t. turkroach/nafri
>No, they are not like you mr "norweigian"
>cherry picks an odd para-gypsy
Find mental treatment mehmet
just stop it with the race-moronation, nobody gives a shit about what race you think is which country and the shitty images you save on your computers
The only good post in this shit thread. Thanks race homosexuals.
We aren't. Only the iberians that post here keep denying it.
We are as a society very well sure about our past. And in medieval fairs that are perfomed all over the country, you will see plenty of actors dressed in muslim clothing.
>Only the iberians that post here keep denying it.
pretty much, i've only seen antisocial morons in IQfy deny that iberians have any african blood
we pretty much don't care, we know many things in our country come from different cultures and appreciate the mix that we are; flamenco was inspired by the gypsies, the guitar was an arab invention here, rice and saffron for paellas thanks to muslim trading, etc
>We
Lol no it's not "We"s you fricking gypsies.
not a gypsie you moron, those sell me fruit
go outside and touch some grass
nobody besides you cares about being white and you aren't doing anything useful with your time by defending our whiteness online
Absolutely no normies in Spain think they have african blood. Idk what kind of people you surround yourself with but they sound like they didnt finish secondary school, or else they would have heard of the "limpiezas de sangre" and the multiple of expulsions of moriscos throughout the XVI and XVII centuries.
Stop projecting your stupidity onto an entire country.
They are false flagging nafris, ignore.
>Absolutely no normies in Spain think they have african blood
absolutely no normie in spain cares about what fricking blood they have you moron
Thanks for agreeing with me, moron.
t. Syrian or Albanian
Based.
>we will never live in the timeline where Rome converted to islam and the holy eagles of allah grasp the world in their talons
>ywn read the wikipedia article on the 97th Roman Civil War where the qiblah was uprooted by the black banner faction and moved to the Lateran basilica
>ywn witness the harem of an Ibero-Roman new world ghazi and his 37 native wives
VGH.... what might have been.....
>ywn bear witness to the wonders of a severely inbred europe resulting in more and more malformed grotesque creatures and average IQ dropping by a point every year
I got you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom
The UK has nothing on islamic societies. Non-european societies from morocco to indonesia are like the habsburgs if they numbered almost two billion. Think about that. Two billion Charles IIs.
Muslim Albanians don't practice consanguineous marriage because of pre-Islamic traditions, could also this be the case in a hypothetical Muslim Europe?
It's so over...
>Rome converted to islam
You've got the ottoman empire
Did they ever get Rome? Even the Byzantine Empire got Rome.
They had the second rome
But not the first. Sucks to suck.
Historically illiterate chuds cannot accept that islam has been a part of europe for more than a millennium.
I have absolutely no respect for the people who deny the obvious Easternness of Islamic empires; whatever landmass they may be sited on. I know you're trying to appear as an enlightened, liberal-minded genius and all, but you're really just erasing the legacy of the Orient to glorify the Occident, much like those evil /misc/acks you so despise. Christendom and Islamic Civilization are simply clean different things, and we all know it.
The orient is nice and exotic, so you should leave them be, maybe study them out of curiosity, but still respect your own culture.
You can live with a bullet inside you for decades but it will always be a foreign object
>Why is Al-Andalus still perceived as an invasive,
Because berbers were not europeans. The Reconquista was a movement to free Europe from an aline muslim and non-european invasion
>alien body lodged into the body of Europe when it was present for seven centuries - longer than there has been a unified spain?
keyword-present
They were unified for not even 50 years before starting to balkanize and lose territory
I mean technically the Umayyads lasted a couple of centuries before they had an autism attack and the Reconquista really started gaining steam.
This is about the 9th time Ive read this exact same thread with the exact same OP
Mental
Illness
This syrian Black person is literally online 24/7
Must be a miserable life as a refugee in the west
The syrian schizo is mentally insane. He is obsessed with europeans.
Same reason whites in South Africa are viewed as invasive aliens despite living there for 500 years.
Most of the Dynasties were dogshit and the natives treated like shit. Anything good about Al Andalusia happened during the Umayyads.
This is the kind of questions only a pseudo-intellectual could ask. If they were kicked out as a governing body first then as a people second Einstein then surely they didn't graft themselves on thier conquest? That much should be self-evident.
>By this logic, are the germanic peoples of europe still "foreign invaders"?
No. Germanic is a European langauge family
>Are the japanese invading ainu lands still?
Yes. Japanese is not native to Hokkaido or even northern Honshu
Because Iberberians are self hating moor rapebabies that demonize their own history and deny their own genetics
project harder syrian mentally ill mongrelico.
Specially make more fake pictures and images of gypsies
Iberians not only have no genetic proximity to moors genetically but are even closer to someone in Norway or Russia than to any non-european.
get fricked
>"Genetic distances and principal component analyses show a clear differentiation of NW African and Iberian groups of samples, suggesting a strong genetic barrier matching the geographical Mediterranean Sea barrier. The restriction to gene flow may be attributed to the navigational hazards across the Straits, but cultural factors must also have played a role. ... Iberian samples show a substantial degree of homogeneity and fall within the cluster of European-based genetic diversity."
>Comas et al
why do leftists consider apartheid south africa invasive, alien body lodged into the body of africa, and al-andalus as quintessentially european, 100% wholesome and the ideal medieval state when al andalus was arab supremacist?
>The ethnic structure of al-Andalus consisted of Arabs at the top of the social scale followed by, in descending order, Berbers, Muladies, Mozarabes, and israelites.[82] Each of these communities inhabited distinct neighborhoods in the cities. In the 10th century a massive conversion of Christians took place, and muladies (Muslims of native Iberian origin), formed the majority of Muslims.
you already know the answer