why isn't psychiatry/psychology shat on more?
its a trillion dollar industry that evidently only causes more harm than good, they pretend to be both science and philosophy, they have a very long history of quacks starting with their politically subversive founders, their concepts are getting more grip on society while people are actually getting off worse mentally, their studies are complete junk and entirely controlled by the massive pharma companies who will manifest a mental illness into the mainstream AFTER they invent a medication for it, even things like CBT are often just layers upon layers of subjective perspective and success rates remain low especially among young men who are arguably the most important demographic when it comes to collective quality of life and the future.
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If its such quackery, why does it work?
You cant have it both ways, you cant claim that the scientific technocrat materialist worldview is superior to alternative, spiritualist worldviews because of its efficacy, but then at the same time claim that psychology isnt a real science even though in actual practice its infinitely more effective & influential on peoples daily lives than moronic shit like quantum physics
>If its such quackery, why does it work?
it doesn't. only as a manipulation (for profit and harm) weapon, but not for good
>if facts arent realized for purely altruistic, profitless motives, they dont constitute REAL science!
goalpost moving, try again
there are no facts in psychiatry or psychology, it has no stronger basis in reality than a gypsy scammer with a glass ball
>psychiatry is le good and scientific even though it only serves as a weapon, makes trillions off of misery it inflicts, because there are popsci articles i dont like
this is your brain on early 20th cent. israeli gooning theories
>If its such quackery, why does it work?
Citation please :). The studies, irreproducible. The pills, placebo.
Placebo effect was discovered by psychology.
Checkmate.
>when your field'ss only discovery is discovering it's all bullshit
lmaooooooo
Placebo effect is another name for the kind of healing that was done through meditation and hypnosis way before it was supposedly 'discovered' by modern science..
>i dont like it, so it cant be true! israelites haved ruled western civilization for a century now only c-cuz they got lucky!
if you were actually studying real psychology, you'd be in public relations or advertising or some such lol, but nice long af blog post bro
Kek during the first three years of this decade, throughout the entire planet governments, think tanks, and intelligence agencies manipulated public discourse and coerced most of the population of the developed world into locking themselves in their houses, wearing face diapers at all times even while outside in the open air, and injecting themselves with DNA-altering cancerous poison, and autistic assclowns ITT will STILL claim that psychology isn't real lmfao
>The studies, irreproducible
Depends on the subdiscipline, moron. Pseuds shitting on psychology don't even know there's a difference between biopsychology and social psychology.
>it works in making the world worse so its good
not sure how you're trying to prove OP wrong here
>If its such quackery, why does it work?
> If its such quackery, why does it work?
It largely doesn’t is the thing. Behavioral therapy and cognitive behavioral therapy were created because what preceded them was so bullshit it couldn’t be tested to find any positive effects. In fact psychodynamic practitioners reject science as a concept, claiming their bullshit is beyond measurement. Which puts them on par with astrologers.
Now CBT isn’t perfect either but at least it’s systematized enough to do experiments trying to establish methods that work and those that don’t.
As to the biomedical side it’s also largely bullshit. Antidepressive drugs in particular can barely show efficacy beyond placebo and that’s AFTER pharma does the normal frickery of removing all the studies they pay for that show no result. Bizarrely the side effects are orders of magnitude greater than the supposed function of these pills and people just act like with great sides must come great power. That’s the logic of old timey herbal concoctions. It’s voodoo. If I give you a bitter foul tasting potion it must be potent stuff. Most of it is just alcohol so you “feel something working” (surprise it’s the booze), you also feel better (surprise it’s the booze and your own imagination), but feeling slightly sick (from the mushrooms I ground up) ensures you believe it’s working.
Amazingly what really DOES have powerful psychoactive effects such as LSD and psilocybin, MDMA and other empathogens and hallucinogens, are all classified as illegal drugs.
Despite most of them originally having been used clinically, some morons used them recreationally, and suddenly you couldn’t even do scientific studies with them because they were scheduled as “has no medical properties” even though they clearly do.
Amazingly this means these drugs have been more illegal than opioids because opioids have medical use. Also the drug industry had no qualms about pushing as much of them onto people for “pain” as possible.
Psychology/psychiatry is a racket.
t. Studying psychology
Please explain scientifically why science is inherently the best method for understanding the human subject tbh. Inb4 you can't because you are gay.
>why isn't psychiatry/psychology shat on more?
its a trillion dollar industry
Gee, Sherlock, I dunno.
that should make it low hanging fruit for many intellectuals though, there could be a lot to gain
>why isn't psychiatry/psychology shat on more?
Because it validates both companies and liberals, anyone who opposes it is an evil chud that has to be silenced.
the goals of psychiatry are very authoritarian though (yet serving nobody but profit it seems), categorizing people into brackets that arbitrarily don't fit in a (from their perspective) inculpable society that everybody by default should, and adding very shaky claims of genetics to the fact
if there is one thing liberalism should go after its psychiatry
There is good psychology and bad psychology.
I think a well done Cognitive Behavioral Therapy is good. It is just watered down Stoicism, but it is good.
Some psychiatric drugs actually do work (even if they are being used much more often than they should).
That said, I think Freudian psychology is charlatanism. I have also seen "public psychologists" saying stupid things to a national audience.
For example, it is well known by research that promiscuity and early sexual activity are related to some later life issues. The government in my country started a campaign against it. Some liberal psychologist with a column in our largest newspaper criticized the campaign heavily and told that "young people should be having tons of sex before marrying, because they won't have this opportunity after marrying". Did she study before writing her column about the effects of promiscuity? Nope. Her opinion was based on liberal discourse.
freud is very surface level wackiness in psychology, every decade since him has deranged stupidity and frick-ups with unethical "research" of pedophilia, harming people with quack cures (for example the lobotomy and a very long list of modern medication lawsuits), wilheim reich stupidity, linking made up personality types to various cancers, gender identity/spectrums, political character assassination/anti-dissidence, it never stops
even most praised modern CBT types like seligman are really just glorified motivational speaker/selfimprovement grifters.
psychology/psychiatry summed up is basically just non-spiritual guruism, want to start a cult these days? just become a well connected psychologist.
>want to start a cult these days?
>these days
>picrel smug-chuckles
jung is a blatant luciferian, not even a cultist
Imagine a world full of people in which there is no study of people
Seems ridiculous to me
you are being reductionist, psychiatry/psychology is very young and its own culture/ideology, which is why it has various branches and streams, all coming from the same roots (freud and jung, and the pharma companies today), psychiatry has achieved literally nothing good since its inception, its israelites talking in circles and doing political activism while 4-5 corporations make a trillion off it.
See I think you're not being reductionist enough.
You're applying too much identity and baggage to a concept that in itself is much more broad and basic and fundamental. And in doing that you only give it more of the power that you resent it for having. The more you buy into the narrative that this is what it has to be the more it will be that.
Psychology is just the study of the human mind and that's baked into the name. You can call it something different but that doesn't change what it is. I don't control what people do within the scope of such a broad conceptual thing but to just throw it all out because I don't like that aspect would only be making things harder on myself. You're trying to throw the baby out with the bath water.
>See I think you're not being reductionist enough.
why?
and you say literally nothing after this part
>uhmm ummm politics is just people exerting power over one another, why do you care it doesnt affect you sweaty?
we never needed the concept of psychology before a bunch of resentful austrian israelites manifested it into existence so that they could frick the wives of aristocrats, we can look at what a group or concept or culture does and we can criticize it, what is your point with this post?
it used to simply be called either common sense, morality, or philosophy. psychology is an actual mindvirus that has achieved nothing but harm and extreme expansion
So we never needed psychology except we actually always had it and it was just called different stuff
I feel like you lack the self awareness to understand how much you're allowing a completely benign entirely conceptual thing to dictate your thought all based on one tiny period of history that ought to be irrelevant to you. The one who seems resentful is you and for no discernable good reason.
>Common sense is essentially synonymous with postmodern psychological rabblerousing pilpul
*Large beeping klaxon* EHHH EHHH EHHH EHHH UOUUUUWWEEEEEE OUUUWEEEEEE BWOW BWOW BWOW BWOW
my point is psychology has never been needed, psychology is about arbitrarily categorizing and trying to trace back made up meaningful origins to human behaviour, you can't even define what psychology really is as a goal, its not wisdom, its not philosophy, its not a system for living or religion, its just a weird structure that serves profit and as a manipulation weapon, you are just dodging the facts of what psychology has achieved for humanity so far.
what you're basically doing is crying about me criticizing communism and talking about "but lets talk about what communism really is, its about sharing materials, its always existed, you are trying to throw the baby out with the bathwater"
psych = mind
ology = study of a thing
I feel like it's pretty obvious what it's all about
How about geology, biology, astrology is it hard to figure out what those are about too?
The study of anything is never really "needed" (whatever that means) or has any concrete goal.
Anything can be used to generate profit and manipulate people that's just the world we live in. You're not really criticizing psychology because there's not much to criticize. You're criticizing the thoughts and actions of people who call themselves psychologists but again I don't control what people do or what they call themselves when they do it especially not anyone who's been dead for a century.
I mean what is even the real agenda here what's the plan? Somehow erase everybody's memories that psychology exists? You know even if you got people to stop using the term psychology that doesn't erase Freud from history and his ideas or their ability to resonate with other people. And that should reveal to you that the concept of "psychology" never had anything to do with it.
>not being reductionist bro but why are you criticizing the 150 year long actions and core of this term? Communism: Commune, Ism, like liberalism is just about liberty and freedom bro why are you against this and what is your plan even because it wouldn't work ok?
I think you don't understand that I'm happy to be "reductionist". I'd rather do that than build up some blanket evil term to direct all of my passive aggressive hatred at. I won't let a mere term control me that way.
i didn't invent the terms of psychiatry and psychology
how are you still conflating the name of what it is, and what it is?
I must be crazy because that's what everybody else is doing and I feel like I'm doing the exact opposite
isn't it amazing how you seem to view psychology as some uncriticizable thing? you didn't say a single thing, you are just mindlessly being defensive because you know its a made up field used only to scam and harm and you probably don't want to admit it
the idea of "studying the mind" itself is a deranged stupid counterproductive concept, and claiming that psychology does so effectively is criticized here, you can't comprehend the criticism for some reason.
the fact that psychology doesn't have a good definition is more criticism
philosophy
morality
religion
ethics
manners
where is psychology needed?
>its a made up field used only to scam and harm
Do you guys actually have any facts at all to back this claim up? You just say this and expect everyone to agree like it's common knowledge even though it obviously seems incredibly biased.
Anyway all fields are made up pretty much. Math is literally just a made up system, every -ology is just a made up system to make it easier to categorize and do experiments and stuff, etc... so this is a worthless criticism.
Also I really don't see how studying the mind is "deranged stupid and counterproductive". People should just not try to understand the human mind? Even if you think it is stupid to try it's like giving a kid some candy and telling them not to eat it. You are not living in the real world if you expect people not to examine the thing that essentially dictates their entire life.
yes i agree
everything is meaningless and prescriptions are subjective, which is why nobody should take psychology seriously because their subjective prescriptions of human behaviour are authoritarian bullshit that make society worse and they gain massive power from it
why should someone "understand" the human mind? and explain what that is without being philosophy, anthropology, biology, morality, ethics?
>philosophy
>morality
>religion
>ethics
>manners
>where is psychology needed?
What are morality, religion, ethics, and manners supposed to do for OCD, schizophrenic, bipolar etc. people? Sure you can argue that the majority of the psychological issues most people commonly face are products of modern society, but there are issues that only psychology alone can tackle.
>OCD, schizophrenic, bipolar
these things only started to be an issue when they were dreamed up and "treated" by psychologists
>these things only started to be an issue when they were dreamed up and "treated" by psychologists
Psychologists came up with the names, diagnostic frameworks, and treatments for these disorders. There are observable neurological differences in the brains of people with these disorders, and they are often genetically heritable (there are specific genes associated with schizophrenia, for example). There are cases of these disorders from far before they were classified.
>completely made up nonsense that probably only manifests itself due to the labelling itself
To diagnose (or label as you say) OCD the symptoms must already be present, so to say that an OCD diagnosis is what manifests OCD symptoms is counterintuitive.
>Psychologists came up with the names, diagnostic frameworks, and treatments for these disorders. There are observable neurological differences in the brains of people with these disorders, and they are often genetically heritable (there are specific genes associated with schizophrenia, for example). There are cases of these disorders from far before they were classified.
i said they were not a problem, not that the "symptoms" didn't exist before, they are only a pathology today. you can also say there are "observable neurological differences" in the brains of people who have a difference in anything else you want to talk about, that doesn't mean anything, it doesn't mean its a physiological problem that has a physiological cure, neurologists don't give a frick about this and psychologists are not neurologists, its just the psychiatric industry trying to give itself an air of scientific credibility nothing else.
>To diagnose (or label as you say) OCD the symptoms must already be present, so to say that an OCD diagnosis is what manifests OCD symptoms is counterintuitive.
diagnosis is largely done by listening to what the patient says, they are also extremely varying simply by visiting a different psychiatrist, telling them the same things as the same person, millions of kids these days get diagnosed as "on the spectrum" which is supposedly an unchangable irreversible genetic brain-defined issue, merely because they have a vaguely defined symptom of anxiety and "lack of social development"
>said they were not a problem, not that the "symptoms" didn't exist before
Why were they not a problem before? Those symptoms cause suffering so if they existed before then they were most certainly a problem. People with schizophrenia/psychosis/bipolar etc. suffered before and after those things became classified.
>diagnosis is largely done by listening to what the patient says, they are also extremely varying simply by visiting a different psychiatrist, telling them the same things as the same person
You can say the same thing about doctors, it's not an issue with psychology per se. Two different doctors can and will give different diagnoses about the same symptoms.
>A lot of children have "imaginary friends" and they aren't labeled as schizophrenic, because they're usually conditioned out of it.
They aren't labeled as schizophrenic because schizophrenia doesn't show symptoms until later in life you stupid Black person, if a 40 year old man started talking about his imaginary friends there is reason for concern.
>I would argue that these are broken telepaths
lol
>anon discovers interdisciplinarity
>Why were they not a problem before?
because most psychological disorders are simply natural human reactions to shitty life situations/environments, schizophrenics were just eccentrics who got accepted in the past, could join a church, whatever, they are extremely rare.
>You can say the same thing about doctors, it's not an issue with psychology per se. Two different doctors can and will give different diagnoses about the same symptoms.
this isn't true, with real diseases you can actually have every single symptom, yet not have the disease, because there needs to be a cause for example a virus or cancer tumour. it is the opposite in psychiatry, in psychiatry you have an arbitrary amount of symptoms of something (is up to the psychologist to decide if you do), and then by definition you have an unchangeable apparently genetic neurological brain malfunction.
>because most psychological disorders are simply natural human reactions to shitty life situations/environments
How is compulsively washing your hands for 30 minutes a natural human reaction to a shitty life situation? How is believing secret police are stalking and coercing you a natural human response to a life situation? The whole reason these things are considered disorders in the first place is that they aren't natural human responses
>this isn't true, with real diseases you can actually have every single symptom, yet not have the disease, because there needs to be a cause for example a virus or cancer tumour
It is the exact same in psychiatry the difference being that the cause of the observable symptoms is physically visible as it relates to the mind, which is also the least understood part of the human body.
*not physically visible
>How is compulsively washing your hands for 30 minutes a natural human reaction to a shitty life situation? How is believing secret police are stalking and coercing you a natural human response to a life situation? The whole reason these things are considered disorders in the first place is that they aren't natural human responses
you bring up cases like these but they are so rare that they are basically not relevant, the mythical psychotic schizophrenic is always the last cope for psychology, but they are like 0.001% of the population and usually on street drugs + psychiatric medication exacerbating their issue.
in the past schizophrenics didn't get in the way of anything and most still don't, many would be shamans or priests, your example of washing hands every 30minutes would probably manifest in something else non-problematic before people had access to soap and could make up shit in their minds about dangerous germs. you say these people existed in the past and that we know of them, but you don't acknowledge that it wasn't a problem then, atleast not a big one, until psychologists decided that it was and now everybody is sick in the mind.
>It is the exact same in psychiatry the difference being that the cause of the observable symptoms is physically visible as it relates to the mind, which is also the least understood part of the human body.
the mind is not part of the body and there is no "normal" or "abnormal"brain the way you think there is in the context of psychology, psychologists don't study the brain, there is no objective reproducible test for a mental disorder the way there is a test for a bacterial infection or virus, or cancer tumour. psychological diagnosis are subjective perspectives and up to interpretation
>you bring up cases like these but they are so rare that they are basically not relevant, the mythical psychotic schizophrenic is always the last cope for psychology, but they are like 0.001% of the population and usually on street drugs
Why does something being uncommon make it irrelevant? Should we not find cures for even the rarest diseases? And psychiatric disorders aren't that uncommon, paranoid schizos and obessive-compulsives are relatively common.
>in the past schizophrenics didn't get in the way of anything and most still don't, many would be shamans or priests, your example of washing hands every 30minutes would probably manifest in something else non-problematic before people had access to soap and could make up shit in their minds about dangerous germs
insane asylums have existed far longer than psychology; in those days schizophrenics would be sent to the looney bin or at best be the raving madman at the outskirts of the village everyone avoided. do you genuinely believe that schizophrenics lived in harmony with society before psychology was invented? As for obsessive-compulsives, their obsession wouldn't likely be germ-related but would still be equally sufferable. If something causes someone distress it is a problem, and this notion that you have that mentally ill people were somehow healthy integrated individuals is borderline moronic.
>the mind is not part of the body and there is no "normal" or "abnormal"brain
Why not?
you're trying to deflect and nitpick, insane asylums support my argument, and i am talking before the industrial revolution and the advent of psychology for obvious reasons.
1. the genuinely insane/non-fitting crazies can just be locked away and kept in check as always, they are rare anyway, most schizophrenics aren't harmful and we know they were often shamans, you are ignoring this
2. the world was much simpler back then and OCD would probably not be very sufferable, it isn't even today, its mostly just tumblrites making shit up because they have nothing else to worry about.
3. every brain is unique, psychologists don't study the brain neurologists do, we don't know much about the brain in general and its delusion to think we can somehow map it out in terms of personality and split second decisions in thought patterns, only a psychologist would be this wienery in talking about it because they dont know anything about it. you don't get to dissect consciousness, it just is.
4. psychiatry almost entirely revolves around the extremely issues of modern depression and anxiety, which aren't addressed in any way whatsoever besides "i dont know must be genes, heres an SSRI, see me next year where i renew the prescription" "oh your kid doesn't concentrate in holocaust class? must be his autistic brain, its shown on scans you know? heres some risperidone, don't worry about the gynocomastia he'll probably want to be trans anyway"
>most schizophrenics aren't harmful and we know they were often shamans, you are ignoring this
Proof for this?
>OCD would probably not be very sufferable, it isn't even today
What makes you think that? OCD is incredibly distressing, sure there are people with fake OCD, but anyone who actually has the disorder would 100% not want to have it. Do you know anything about OCD besides the colloquial usage?
>every brain is unique
Most psychologists would agree with this statement.
>modern depression and anxiety
In this case you are right, most people who are diagnosed with depressive and anxiety disorders ARE responding naturally to a depressing and anxious environment, or life situations. But depressive and anxiety disorders, wherein the patient has an UNnatural and persistent symptom of anxiety/depression would be a disorder, even hundreds of years ago. your beef is with modern psychiatric/therapeutic institutions and not psychology itself.
>do you have proof for connecting point A and B?
Christianity relegated prophets and mediums to either ancient history or the neighborhood "psychic."
The rulers of your democratic society pay enormous fees to these psychics. The psychics aren't in control, but their advice is sought in the higher echelons. Rank and file skeptics exist for plausible deniability.
>But depressive and anxiety disorders, wherein the patient has an UNnatural and persistent symptom of anxiety/depression would be a disorder
but these basically don't exist
you have to rely on extreme outliers that are basically imaginary to justify the existence of this thing, and you don't seem to realize that psychologists diagnose people with the like 15 variants of "depressive disorder" if they have symptoms, regardless of what causes it or doing deep dives about what causes it.
>and you don't seem to realize that psychologists diagnose people with the like 15 variants of "depressive disorder" if they have symptoms, regardless of what causes it or doing deep dives about what causes it.
I literally do realize this, I said it in my post, " most people who are diagnosed with depressive and anxiety disorders ARE responding naturally to a depressing and anxious environment, or life situations".
>you have to rely on extreme outliers that are basically imaginary to justify the existence of this thing
its called a disorder because they're extreme outliers. what do you think disorder means?
basically every person can go to a psychologist right now and they will be diagnosed with a disorder guaranteed.
if you acknowledge that people who are "unnaturally" depressed while having good life circumstances etc. are so rare, then you should agree with me that psychology and its institutions are completely pointless and only serve harm right now through overdiagnosis and overprescribing, and ideological issues.
for the truly dysfunctional there have always been asylums or prisons or whatever simple care is necessary in different shapes or forms, psychology doesn't serve anything that things like religion and communities didn't in the past.
it is basically only used for bad, from its inception, the early founders were political activists and fricked their patients and engaged in unethical woowoo, nowadays practictioners mean well but they are just unaware dealers for big pharma.
we can tell by statistics that nobody is getting happier despite all the money in psychiatric drugs and treatments.
Okay but just tell me what your plan is to fix it
You hate psychology so much so what are you gonna do about it
>then you should agree with me that psychology and its institutions are completely pointless and only serve harm right now through overdiagnosis and overprescribing, and ideological issues.
I've said multiple times that I DO agree with you that modern psychological institutions are bad, yet you lack even a basic understanding of psychiatry and psychiatric disorders so it's impossible for you to see the need for a non-corrupt study of the mind.
your brain is too clouded by reactionary politics so instead of putting the blame where it's due, in modern psychology as an institution, you throw the baby out with the bathwater and denounce the idea of psychology as a whole in favor of a very vague and naive idea of community or religion or whatever
Psychology is one of the things people chesterton fence hard. They don't understand it very well just parrot the same negative talking points that have been around forever and decide it's the worst thing ever that must be destroyed. It's not like it's even hard to find someone that will tell you it helped them.
strawman
anon you realize that psychologists aren't bursting into people's homes and forcing a diagnosis on them in order to make their life worse somehow.
There is a very obvious selection bias here. People are going to psychiatrists because they're suffering why would they go otherwise. You say it wasn't a problem in the past but how the hell do you know? Of course they weren't going to psychiatrists in the past if they didn't exist. Hey successful cancer treatments are up a million percent since 5000 B.C. I guess that means modern doctors invented cancer just to ruin everybody's life for fun. You see how stupid this logic is.
Yes not everybody has the most extreme symptoms but they still must have some symptoms that are bad enough they decide to do something about it. I feel like you guys are just completely missing the point. What do you care if X disorder is real or not anyway. The point is if someone has a problem and they go to a psychiatrist and it helps what else really matters. Even if it's not perfect and doesn't always work at least somebody cares enough to try and that's better than nothing.
>People are going to psychiatrists because they're suffering why would they go otherwise
For the drugs. I'm sure an enormous number of people would be fine without powerful opiates or sedatives or stimulants, but just lie to the doctor and get it.
So the argument simply boils down to "it can be used badly and can have negative effects so it should be destroyed".
Then the question becomes well how many positive effects has it had? I'm sure you don' know anyway even though there's probably plenty.
But whatever lets get to the important part what do you actually do about this then. And the only feasible answer is probably government regulation but let me guess you hate government regulation because it's authoritarian so really you're just whining about something you don't really want to fix that probably doesn't even affect you.
Psychology is an institution.
Good institutions are established to help people. As the cycle of ages turns, these institutions often become corrupted. Instead of helping people, they begin to
>justify their own existence
>destroy or sabotage any competition
>control a market to get as much money as possible
>hurt people in order to create a demand, selling poisons and cures
Personally I like the Food and Drug Administration, at least the Food half. The standards for what food can be marketed as is good and strict. The only problem I have with the drug half is that it can assist a cartel that restricts supply and extorts with insane prices.
You can't really do away with it. But if society was built better and had healthier communities and more rewarding lives, then most people wouldn't have to be on powerful pharmaceuticals
psychology is very authoritarian in society today, many teachers will contact parents of kids with a concerned face and push them to seek something out, or even bring in a psychologist immediately, and many teachers are very incompetent, women are obsessed with psychology aswell and every other person diagnosis and self-diagnosis.
we can guesstimate when people were having hard times in history and killing themselves and such. people in the past always had something to help cope before psychology, psychology is a secular pseudoscientific version of those equivalents in the past.
i care because psychology has an extremely bad track record and has been nothing but unethical disasters like lobotomies, global drug addictions, the transgender garbage, the incel crisis, political subversion and anti-dissidence, market/political manipulation it just goes on and on, early psychologists were all communists who unironically started out approaching working class teens on the street to tell them the wonders of free love and abortion.
doctors did not "invent cancer" because cancer tumours actually exist, 1 in 5 kids are now on the autistic spectrum, where did those "genes" come from? how was autism not a problem before 1900?
>They aren't labeled as schizophrenic because schizophrenia doesn't show symptoms until later in life you stupid Black person
The official story is that schizophrenia and mental disorders USUALLY manifests itself in the early twenties. I think instead is that this is a time when most people have the most duress placed on them, figuring out whatever education or careers.
>It's different because I said so
> if a 40 year old man started talking about his imaginary friends
First, kids are innocent and don't know better. Second, grown men usually have enough awareness to never talk about anything odd, ever. If they lack this awareness and start raving to nobody, it's straight to the insane asylum. Even if they've never been there, they have an idea, suspect it. Mental illness is a very terrible stigma.
wow i guess psychologists are basically geneticists and neurologists then and know a lot about these things? oh wait..
These might as well be bot posts with how predictable they are but you only believe this until it affects you or someone you know.
If it never does good for you but I hope you realize you're never going to convince anybody with a disorder that it's not real so you're purely preaching to the converted.
>OCD
completely made up nonsense that probably only manifests itself due to the labelling itself, doesnt and never existed especially in the past
>schizophrenia
every other monk/saint/etc, shamans in the past, many schizophrenics are comptlely functional even today and you don't know they are schizophrenic
>bipolar
literally just somebody stuck in learned helpnessless or a cycle of motivation and failure to launch, environmental issues
these things are just human life in general and psychology so far has done nothing to help
>studying the mind is deranged "stupid" (really) counterproductive concept
Based argument, bro
argue then
Arguing is stupid and counterproductive it's a deranged concept.
OK, Livia Soprano
>writing down my own interpretation of what the mind is and does and acting like its objective is like so fricking important
psychology is the epitome of midwittery, you want to act like its philosophy but its just a rabbi jerking off to himself
you're just mad and jealous that israelites thought of it first lol
>"...Satan can never stay quiet for long; where his presence is called, he alights, and screams 'Here I am!'"
>anything can be used for bad so whats the problem with this thing being particularly bad and bad in itself? like what is your agenda?
>you know that humans made it up so therefore its like valid right? you can't undo it so just accept it and stop talking about it
i think we should probably have more boxing coaches in the world and prescribe beatings to people afflicted with the psych-student disease.
So basically you're pro gun control is what you're saying
how are you equating psychology to ethics, philosophy, morality etc? you are actually moronic, why do you think the term psychology came into existence so short ago in the first place? why do you think theres a seperate term? for fun?
>study of people
That's anthropology, stupid.
>psychology isn't real
>psychology is real but its inferior to other studies
>psychology is real but it's harmful to society
>psychology is real but it serves no purpose
which one is it?
its not hard to grasp at all, psychology is the act of prescribing meaningless names and definitions to human behaviour, and then pondering what meaning those names and definitions have, this field tries to be scientific but it is extremely incomprehensible, contradictory, and weak, on top of that it has a long history of causing harm to people and society
by definition this serves no good purpose
Why are the names meaningless when they describe consistently documented human behaviors?
they aren't consistent and they are highly subjective, labelling people has arguably many bad effects and psychology is extremely arrogant in assuming they can map the human mind, interpreting life is spiritual/philosophical (like i said psychology was never needed), but psychology these days tries to give credibility and authority to their fantasy system by talking about brain scans and genetics even though none of them ever look at any and we don't know shit about those fields either.
if they are actually consistent then they speak for themselves, psychologists talk in a circle until another one comes along with a different arbitrary definition and they slightly change the content of the loop, while prescribing a trillion dollars worth of SSRI's and the suicide rate tenfolds, they don't actually come to any conclusion besides "wow a thing happens"
What you don't realize is that you are in fact describing basically all science. You think you're criticizing psychology but you've just given it an insane compliment by your own standards lmao.
psychology doesn't have reproducible studies or ideas observable in reality, its basically a collective fantasy by pedophilic israelites
anon you think science is full of "reproducible studies" and "ideas observable in reality"?
You could read 100 scientific papers and you'd be LUCKY to find a conclusion of "wow a thing happens". It's more like "wow a thing might happen".
But the really funny part of all this is I know all of you disingenuous pieces of shit in this thread right now are more than happy to pit psychology against "real" science as long as it serves you but the moment someone does the exact same thing with your precious philosophy you'd start singing a different tune.
hard sciences not being perfect doesn't take away the point, psychology doesn't have a good track record at all, what psychologists dream up almost never matches up with observable reality when tested, and they use a lot of junk studies to actually decide real world decisions, for example anti-psychotics are prescribed to young teens en masse because of subjective "autistic behaviour" in rats.
I really don't think this can be true.
Psychologists are the ones actually observing and dealing with people. Like that's their whole job. If they're not matching up with observable reality then who am I supposed to believe is? Yeah a psychologists who deals with real people is just making stuff up for no reason but a writer who's entire job is to make up imaginary people in their head they're the ones who really get it... I simply don't think so anon...
their dealing with people is based on their literature, which are completely full of holes and basically just speculation and make belief
how many of those research papers were psychology? probably 90%
It's unclear to me whether suicide rates went up because of psychology, and more precisely I guess, psychotherapy. Maybe life has just become more distressing, therapists deal with people who are already struggling. Maby therapists would agree that positive experiences in everyday life are more important for a healthy mind than a 30 minutes CBT session, but they can't change the world.
there are articles these days from psychologists that actually neither meaning or happiness is required for a good life.
Quality of life is nosediving but the neolib shits gaslight people into saying it’s better than ever because of the GDP and iPhones.
Meanwhile looking at practical issues like affording housing, moving out to start a career, beginning a family, the ball gets kicked further and further down the line while people insist it’s better than ever. Wages are stagnant in most of the west when controlling for cost of living or even diving. Middle class is shrinking or dead. Practically you’re expected to move around the country as a pingpong ball chasing a wage raise because you’ll get fricking nothing being loyal to where you are. So you’re 25 hopefully done with school and living on your own for the first time, bouncing around trying to chase employment and raises, living in some bumfrick apartment, trying to get stable enough to “start living”.
You’re not doing anything more complicated than what grandpop did straight out of highschool. You just needed to spend 3-6 more years in school for the paper chase. Getting dicked around the country while he stayed in the same spot for half his life. He bought a house, you rent or even share a place with others. He got married because his life was stable at 25. You’re an itinerant worker at 30 who’s had time for 2 serious relationships and now the broads are getting desperate because their biological clocks are ticking.
We haven’t even talked about the general malaise of a lack of purpose, dead spirituality, not even any sense of belonging in politics or nationalism, all helpfully deconstructed over the last 50 years by a certain brand of activist in academia and education.
Maybe people feel hopeless because their situation is hopeless? Maybe that’s not a psychological issue but a practical political one?
My biggest problem with psychology is that it's too individual when it's rather obvious that most pathologies and mass psychosis stem from a much wider and more complex societal aspect and not the fact that mommy or daddy or brother or sister didn't love them enough.
To put it bluntly, a man who pisses in bed as an adult could be diagnosed by who knows what trauma but he could also be from a neighborhood where the water system is infected and 70% of the neighborhood also piss in their beds - the psychologist will always assume the former.
society being inculpable is probably the biggest issue in therapy now, and i think it will kill it, psychology will take off the mask and transparently become a political power exclusively soon
It's an institution.
If you write a book you have to abide by certain rules.
>Anything related to climate or the world or science in general has to talk about how global warming is real
>never blame the israelites for anything
>the official story for 9/11 the holocaust, recent elections, etc is total fact and you do not question it
You can publish books by yourself but very few people are willing to throw their reputation away in an attack on an entrenched institutions. They would lose their reputation by being shut down, denied job opportunities, rank-and-file academics scoffing at them, and so on. You need someone that's a loose cannon AND someone intelligent enough to know the corruption inside and out, and the entire professional career modus from elementary to hiring is weeding out the loose cannons, to make them work as day laborers.
The only exceptions are types like Elon. Papers will b***h about him but he's rich and eccentric. He's not in the highest money percentile, but maybe not the highest intellect percentile.
Anyways your attacks have to be true, and every pill huckster in the developed world will
>deny your claims
>point out your lack of expertise
>claim they know what they're talking about
>and NEVER speak of their financial incentives
Even if your attacks are true, if anyone thinks they been "damaged" by them then they'll try to sue you anyway and often win.
Since society is an empire built on lies, what's happening is that there's a tiered society where the official story types form their own caste, and everyone else just keeps their mouths shut. The official story types took the vaccine. Nobody that played "Deus Ex" took the vaccine.
To defeat the empire of lies, you have to siege it out, deny them their supporters, one by one, until it collapses.
OP wants his book so I'll write his book for him. Nobody would ever publish it though
Schizophrenia is dumb as frick if you take one second to think beyond the official story.
>there's "higher dimensions" with "interdimensional aliens" and with either religious discipline or DMT you can perceive and interact with these aliens
>telepathy and astral projection is plausible if not unreliable
These are all fringe scientific or spiritual theories. Fringe or not, they have devotees, lasting presence and, apparent success, despite being in the most hardened of secular societies. Don't even count the ancient traditions, the muses, oracles, the shamans even lasting to today.
So, is the guy "hearing voices" "schizophrenic"? It depends.
In an empirical sense, you could just be imagining things. It might not be disembodied voices, but your own imagination. That's usually not schizophrenia. A lot of children have "imaginary friends" and they aren't labeled as schizophrenic, because they're usually conditioned out of it.
If voices give you persistently bad ideas, then it's classified as schizophrenia. Typically there's an command or urge for people to kill themselves. At this point a doctor would proscribe medicine. If they act on their urges, then they would get the nastiest of diagnoses and be ordered medication.
What does the medication do? Purportedly, very rare combinations can stop or quiet insistent voices. This isn't consistent. Often the medicine just placates people until they no longer feel anything. The voices still haunt people, telling them to kill themselves. But they just can't be fricked to do anything about it, since they're stripped of all sense of caring. That's the medication for you. Maybe nine times out of ten, the medication truly fixes nothing. I've seen the odd exception though.
Also worth considering are the odd sorts: the raving madmen that hear the voices and mumble back at them. I would argue that these are broken telepaths.
Personally I was diagnosed with schizophrenic bipolar disorder, the worst of the lot. I knew better and got my sense back with a low-stress lifestyle and meditation. I've been off medicine for years, and I keep up a house, make all As in college (so far), rent out a room. I think and act not only coherently but leagues ahead of other people. The doctors say it's impossible. Compare this to serious athletes that get injured and "can never walk again" but occasionally regain total mobility by resuming a real exercise regimen.
What I've learned from this thread is that everybody thinks they know about people better than everybody else. People think they know more than a psychologist but how often do you really deal with people to back up such a claim. For most people probably not half as much and nowhere near the same level. Most people just constantly project whatever they want onto other people including the psychologists themselves which is probably why they think they must be as clueless as they are. People love to look down on psychologists while playing armchair psychologist themselves even though it's completely inaccurate and just made up in their head.
Psychologists aren't immune to projecting. projecting is basically their entire business.
But you're on to something. Anyone with real learned intelligence knows that people have vastly different ways of approaching problems. An engineer doesn't think like a soldier, those don't think like musicians, and so on for most disciplines. Psychologists don't see that and instead insist on analyses that would somehow apply to everyone's minds, and this all meets at dead ends.
Look at the official lore for kleptomania:
>they don't care about the fact that it's someone else's thing
>they presume they have a right to have it
This is all nonsense. Real kleptomaniacs are just too moronic to grasp the concept of property. It's like trying to teach traffic laws to someone that would never be competent enough to drive a car. Such a disparity of intelligence is lost on psychologists who insist all minds work the same way. It's not true, but science as a whole insists that nobody is special, that all men all function the same way.
Okay but how do you know anon
I mean tell me how many kleptomaniacs have you talked to
I haven't talked to any but what you're saying doesn't make much sense to me
There have been famous kleptomaniacs (entirely women interestingly) and from what I can tell they seem to understand that what they're doing is stealing other people's property it's just a compulsion they can't get rid of
> how many kleptomaniacs have you talked to
I didn't talk to him, but there was a moronic guy in a mental asylum that shat himself pretty often and tried to propose to all the female staff.
what does any of that have to do with kleptomania
He would steal socks, rip pages out of book, steal food, and stick it all in his pants because he would hoard shit. It's a mental thing but I personally don't believe in intelligent kleptomaniacs. Kleptomania exists but I'm sure people would rather blame thievery on "a disease" instead of their own nature.
i am OP and arguing in this thread and I and most of my family have been in therapy for many years, i've spoken to many psychologists, also i know someone who basically was addicted to shoplifting, it was simply something that manifested due to being poor, wanting to have things, and being in a shitty situation (divorce, depression, unemployment etc), then once he got a relationship, better help, work etc, he just quit stealing altogether in the span of like 3 months, despite doing it daily and compulsively for like 3 years before
why did he do it in the first place? because hes from a poorgay family and his dad did it infront of him as a kid, not some placeholder genetic brain deformation that we are supposed to discover any day now but just assume exists and treat with random raising and decreasing of serotonin.
why didn't you reply to this post
too?
sigmund floyd?
reminder that according to statistics psychologists score around 100-101 on iq tests
EQ is more important than IQ.
>EQ is more important than IQ.
doesn't exist, complete fabrication of sociology (which is just progressive liberal political activism)
>why don't they get rid of...
Modern mental health institutions are too useful to whatever police intel apparatus they inevitably fall victim to and whose criminal profiling schemes they support.
pyschiatry/psychology is a consequence of science as ideology, or better said, is a consequence of the hope and illusion that science is the REAL system to know and understand everything.
at least thats why normie people go to psychologists and we dont see authentic protest discourse over their authoritarian attitude and ideas. psychology is an arm of their system of believe (aka: science.) so nobody can really protest it without be perceived as a nutjob linked to some new wave esoterism or, you can only critizicing it confabulating still more science, more real and now good and authentic now this time authentic science to psychology. so the main problem still remains.
science will not stop till somebody stop it, its an idea that will try to understand everything by its own lenses.
and we can have psychiatry/psychology lobotomizing people, chem- chastrating the invididual will and throwing out all kinds of manipulative notions of how a real sane person should think and behave...(but not by any societal norm but back it up by science ...) and everybody will be silent, because its all in the name of science. their authentic believe.
they cant openly criticize it because is part of their inner core of believe and reasoning. they are completely helpless.
i think it would be and it should be very very evident to anyone that the scientific method is not a good tool to undertand human and humanity, in fact is a completely distorted view who can only result in a classified, cold, utilitarist, and useless view of humanity.
as long as science dont stop and dont see their own limitations we gonna see authentics horrors in the field of psychology and psychiatry, they just dont care and dont know how awful they are doing and how they intrinsic view is wrong to understand such an anti-scientific notion as human spirit or whatever you want to call what inner freedom is.
but human ambitions are what it is as it always was.
this is a crusade of science to be a pervasive global system of thought. thats how i see it anyway.
or at least that is why it is condemned to be innefective any criticism of it. in the end, science believers gonna try another approximation to human mind under scientific discourse, which gonna end always in the same atrocious half-baked ideas of what a person is.
Fundamentally it is a field of study invented by the elites (I think of them as the "non-working classes") to essentially "aid" the proletariat in coping with wage slavery, a mode of existence that they do not want to partake in themselves.
I don't see how this differs from brainwashing. It doesn't make sense for mental illness to be as prevalent as it is. Living organisms are adapted to live a certain way. Psychological distress manifests when they are forced out of that default way of living. The only place you see this in other species is when you put them in a zoo and I think that says plenty about the society we have inherited.
Beyond that, I don't know a single person who has been cured by psychiatry in any meaningful sense. I can't help but be skeptical of a treatment that, when it fails, can blame it on the patient not having enough fsith what they have been told.
>it is a field of study invented by the elites (I think of them as the "non-working classes") to essentially "aid" the proletariat in coping with wage slavery, a mode of existence that they do not want to partake in themselves.
>freud's first clients were joe-bob the salmon gutter & tammie rae the cleaning lady
you're literally moronic
Present an actual point and I may respond to you
the first ever clients of psychology/psychotherapy were european aristocrats & bougie intellectual types, your thesis that it was designed with the proletariat in mind is demonstrably untrue & historically illiterate
just scroll up to my post here
Times have changed. Psychologists and psychiatrists used to help people but now it's all a standardized and streamlined for pharmaceutical industry profit (at least for psychiatry, psychologist that are therapists are hit and miss but often genuinely try to help).
It's fricked up because therapists literally just pretend to be your close friend.
>are you fricked up because you have no close friends?
>or do you have no friends because you're fricked up?
It is constantly. The issue with modern social psychiatry is that the founders of it understood the radial implications of Freud’s work and in an effort to save the image of the man of the enlightenment they abstracted away from the core of Freudian thought (roughly a sort of civilizational unheimlich) to replace it with a quasi-biological foundation that allows for maladies without reducing man to them. Freud’s work painted a picture of man that was much closer to traditional Christian theology than liberal enlightenment philosophy and as such it had to be repressed for the sake of the system’s continued legitimacy and the social psychologists were happy to play their part. If you ever ask a social psychologist what their view of man amounts to it’s often blurry and difficult to describe. This is on purpose. As long as you don’t have a unified picture of what man is and you can reduce everything into chemical interactions and dopamine thresholds then people will instinctively fill in that picture of man with their own personal ideas and any kind of unified science of the mind will never take place. In fact, the first thing most social psychologists learn for their clinical practice is to refrain from any suggestive behavior such that the patient that can fill that hole in themselves with their own ideas. It’s all a colossal effort to run from the fact that man is first and foremost an animal and that being a human is a skill and a process instead of an inborn fact of nature. Interestingly, sociologists tend to hold Freud more dearly than psychologists do given that the proximity of his major works tend to lean more to sociology than psychology. (Civilization and its Discontents, Totem and Taboo, Beyond the Pleasure Principle, on Dreams, etc) I’d try reading from some more critical sociologists if you’d want to know more.
Solid post.
>people shitting on psychologists
Yeah I'm not going to disagree, I posted stuff earlier.
But the psychologists having an IQ average of 100 is hilarious. That means there's a lot of 75 IQ psychologists out there giving advice to patients.
Anon… every discipline barring shit like quantum physicist is going to have an IQ average of 100 with enough samples.
You're right
there's been buzz about the recent studies showing that college students now have an average IQ of 102 now, when in 1920 or so they had an average of 116. Something like a .2 point decline every year
Wump
Not looking good for psychcels ITT
It’s all israeli shit
Livia Soprano, is that you?
You're thinking of sociology. Psychiatry is iffy, but that's because of the drug industry as opposed to prescribing healthy diets and exercise
Aren't there multiple meta-studies that prove the long-term efficacy of therapy on things like PTSD, depression anxiety and so forth?