Without sounding like a pretentious dickgobbler, explain what makes it a classic aside from historical significance
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Without sounding like a pretentious dickgobbler, explain what makes it a classic aside from historical significance
Flashpoint of all modern storytelling.
Effectively the beginning of literature as says. If it isn't a classic then absolutely nothing is. Stupid question, really stupid.
i laughed when hera hit athena with her bow 🙂
Was Homer a real person?
Were the Iliad and the Odyssey composed by the same orator?
The illiad was composed by a young fujoshi, enamoured by the tale of achiles and patroclus. The Odyssey is written by an older ex fuhoshi keeping herself virgin (volcelism) while she waits for the true tradhusband to come to her
Both were most likely composed over a long period of time (possibly centuries) out of the oral storytelling tradition. Poetry in Greece was considered to be a rather utilitarian mnemonic device rather than an artistic flair, so Iliad was meant for recitals and memorization.
Wasn’t the recitation accompanied by music though? It seems a bit far-fetched to say the meter was purely functional, but if you have some source for that claim I’d be interested to see it.
>Without sounding like a pretentious dickgobbler
It's good. It's from an ancient warrior culture with different values to our own, who took "hero worship" quite literally. No one could write something like it today. Fantasy writers try and don't get close.
The Iliad directly caused the scientific revolution
*crack* *sip* yeah my homerian epic filtration-matic 5000 is great. Just put a zoomer in and get a zero ultra out.
I read it in the original, it's hard to explain, the metric reading together with its original "bardic" nature with the repetition of common phrases and epithets makes it almost an hypnotic experience. It's also what sets it apart imho from the Aeneid. The latter ain't bad, quite good even, but it reads just as another story from point A to B, whereas the Iliad does feel far more like the echo of rhapsodes singing the deeds of the aristocracy fully immersed in their own mythic/symbolic universe.
VGH… swift footed achilles
1. Epic, timeless themes of death, the mortality of man and the meaning of how he chooses to spend his little time on earth.
2. a guideline for millenia on how to set-up plotlines and build tension
3. Complex emotional characters that give a commentary on the weakness of man
4. The role and whims of the Gods are a beautiful commentary on the chaotic nature of life and yet they still emphasize a sort of free will and the consequences of choices
5. Epic fricking fights and action
also
>aside from historical significance
that's a copout. You can't view the Iliad outside of its historical context.
One of the biggest reasons why it is so amazing is because it gives us an in-depth look at Greece of 800ish BC. The customs and morals of the time are woven into the book.
How can you not judge it as one of the first major works ever written?
>1. Epic, timeless themes of death, the mortality of man and the meaning of how he chooses to spend his little time on earth.
Wow like my comicbooks! What does it have to do with quality of the work itself? Timeless is just another word for generic
>2. a guideline for millenia on how to set-up plotlines and build tension
Lmao no, Iliad is devoid of all modern narrative intentions, there are no arcs or payoffs
>3. Complex emotional characters that give a commentary on the weakness of man
99% of Iliad characters get speared in the groin two lines after being introduced, frick off with that "complex, emotional"
>4. The role and whims of the Gods are a beautiful commentary on the chaotic nature of life and yet they still emphasize a sort of free will and the consequences of choices
This isn't a "commentary", greeks actually believed that shit. You're engaging in modernist reading of ancient literature thus misunderstanding it.
>5. Epic fricking fights and action
Haha just like Endgame, I loved it when Achilles whispered "Trojans...assemble!"
>You can't view the Iliad outside of its historical context.
>One of the biggest reasons why it is so amazing is because it gives us an in-depth look at Greece of 800ish BC. The customs and morals of the time are woven into the book.
>How can you not judge it as one of the first major works ever written?
I never said historicity isn't significant. It is very significant from purely academic point of view. But it's not woven inside the work itself. When Iliad was being written, Homer (had he even existed) was creating a contemporary poem, not a historical time capsule for white people to jerk their dicks over 25 centuries later. Historical significance grows naturally with time and happenstance. Perhaps this very shitpost will be seen as the last extant document of the extinct human civilization as analyzed by alien explorers 10000000 years from now. Every single word will be ran through countless specialists and they shall wonder if anon from 4cham was a respected sage of his time (I totally am).
You're either exceptionally low IQ or just trolling
>This isn't a "commentary", greeks actually believed that shit. You're engaging in modernist reading of ancient literature thus misunderstanding it.
have you ever read any anthropology in your fricking life, uneducated moron?
Mythology is ALWAYS a system to explain the natural order of the world
This guy read the feminist retelling.
>Wow like my comicbooks! What does it have to do with quality of the work itself? Timeless is just another word for generic
lol
>Lmao no, Iliad is devoid of all modern narrative intentions, there are no arcs or payoffs
lol
>99% of Iliad characters get speared in the groin two lines after being introduced, frick off with that "complex, emotional"
lol
>This isn't a "commentary", greeks actually believed that shit. You're engaging in modernist reading of ancient literature thus misunderstanding it.
lol
>Haha just like Endgame, I loved it when Achilles whispered "Trojans...assemble!"
lol
>historicity blabla
lol
You are wasting your time trying to understand literature. Do something more your speed like video essays about Marvel films.
high effort b8
I really hope you don't pretend to read irl
i feel better about liking dragon ball z since i'm reading the iliad, since it's very similar. i always thought it would be very obscure, but it's non stop action and twists and tension build up until the hero saves the day.
does it mean the iliad was always go*slop or that the root of all litterature is like this?
I put it down after book 3 because the repetition was too much and I don't give a frick about random dude's family tree or description. Should I continue reading?
Not gonna lie former Homer fan here. This is fricking hilarious watching Homer crash and burn. But in all seriousness we can't let Emily Wilson translate the Homeric Hymns.
Person. Man. Complicated. Muse. Tell me.
hello, anon!
it's me again from the Waste Land threads 2 years ago
for a minute I almost didn't recognize you there but now that I saw your bait mass reply, I'm sure
nice to see you, how's it going? still struggling to understand poetry I see
t. dragonbro
a classic is a work of art that is considered so valuable that people over the centuries have preserved and been inspired by. It thus is historically significant; that is part of the definition of a classic.
Now the actual question you ask is what makes it so that this has become a classic? The simple fact that a lot of people do consider it a great work of art. That does not mean that everyone thinks it is one. But that does mean there are certain qualities in it that cannot be ignored.
Now your question actually revolves around these qualities that are supposedly present. For one, the Iliad has amazing style in terms of poetry. Translations cannot capture this, although Pope probably comes closest in his attempt. I think this point is actually the most important. Secondly, it really is just an interesting story, that to this day is still on a high level. There are other reasons that are probably as valid, but these two seem the most important to me.
Now you will probably call me an anal fallus-consumer, but that is no matter to me
Historical significance is a huge part of why it has the reputation it's got. It is a genuinely great poem, but there are many, many great poems.
That's not a dig against Homer. He was still really good. It's not his fault he was one of the first poets to get written down.
Not to be rude but his responses were at least as thoughtful as yours. You have no idea what you're talking about and don't seem particularly interested in learning. If you're at all for real, my advice to practice humility and self-awareness.
Judges, written in the same epoch, is better tbh. But people don't think of it as a literary work.
Then the children of Israel again committed wickedness in the sight of the Lord: and the Lord [i]strengthened Eglon king of Moab against Israel, because they had committed wickedness before the Lord.
13 And he gathered unto him the children of Ammon, and Amalek, and went and smote Israel, and they possessed the city of palm trees.
14 So the children of Israel served Eglon king of Moab eighteen years.
15 But when the children of Israel cried unto the Lord, the Lord stirred them up a savior, Ehud the son of Gera the son of [j]Jemini, a man [k]lame of his right hand: and the children of Israel sent a present by him unto Eglon king of Moab.
16 And Ehud [l]made him a dagger with two edges of a cubit length, and he did gird it under his raiment upon his right thigh,
17 And he presented the gift unto Eglon king of Moab (and Eglon was a very fat man.)
18 And when he had now presented the present, he sent away the people that bare the present,
19 But he turned again from the [m]quarries, that were by Gilgal, and said, I have a secret errand unto thee, O King. Who said, Keep [n]silence: and all that stood about him went out from him.
20 Then Ehud came unto him, (and he sat alone in a summer parlor, which he had) and Ehud said, I have a message unto thee from God. Then he arose out of his throne.
21 And Ehud put forth his left hand, and took the dagger from his right thigh, and thrust it into his belly,
22 So that the haft went in after the blade, and the fat closed about the blade, so that he could not draw the dagger out of his belly, but the dirt came out.
23 Then Ehud got him out into the [o]porch, and shut the doors of the parlor upon him, and locked them.
24 And when he was gone out, his servants came: who seeing that the doors of the parlor were locked, they said, Surely [p]he doeth his easement in his summer chamber.
25 And they tarried till they were ashamed: and seeing he opened not the doors of the parlor, they took the key, and opened them, and behold, their lord was fallen dead on the earth.
Also the blinded Sampson bringing down the pillars on his own head to crush himself with the enemy.
And Jephthah [q]vowed a vow unto the Lord, and said, If thou shalt deliver the children of Ammon into mine hands,
31 Then that thing that cometh out of the doors of mine house to meet me, when I come home in peace from the children of Ammon, shall be the Lord’s, and I will offer it for a burnt offering.
32 And so Jephthah went unto the children of Ammon to fight against them, and the Lord delivered them into his hands.
33 And he smote them from Aroer even till thou come to Minnith, twenty cities, and so forth to [r]Abel of the vineyards, with an exceeding great slaughter. Thus the children of Ammon were humbled before the children of Israel.
34 ¶ Now when Jephthah came to Mizpah unto his house, behold, his daughter came out to meet him with [s]timbrels and dances, which was his only child: he had none other son, nor daughter.
35 And when he saw her, he [t]rent his clothes, and said, Alas my daughter, thou hast brought me low, and art of them that trouble me: for I have opened my mouth unto the Lord, and cannot go back.
36 And she said unto him, My father, if thou hast opened thy mouth unto the Lord, do with me as thou hast promised, seeing that the Lord hath avenged thee of thine enemies the children of Ammon.
37 Also she said unto her father, Do thus much for me: suffer me two months, that I may go to the mountains, and [u]bewail my virginity, I and my fellows.
38 And he said, Go: and he sent her away two months: so she went with her companions, and lamented her virginity upon the mountains.
Or Samuel
And David was then in an hold, and the garrison of the Philistines was then in Bethlehem.
15 And David [k]longed, and said, Oh, that one would give me to drink of the water of the well of Bethlehem which is by the gate.
16 Then the three mighty brake into the host of the Philistines, and drew water out of the well of Bethlehem that was by the gate, and took and brought it to David, who would not drink thereof, but [l]poured it for an offering unto the Lord,
17 And said, O Lord, be it far from me, that I should do this. Is not this the blood of the men that went in jeopardy of their lives? therefore he would not drink it. These things did these three mighty men.
18 ¶ And Abishai the brother of Joab, the son of Zeruiah, was chief among the three, and he lifted up his spear against three hundred, [m]and slew them, and he had the name among the three.
19 For he was most excellent of the three, and was their captain, but he attained not unto the first three.
20 And Benaiah the son of Jehoiada the son of [n]a valiant man, which had done many acts, and was of Kabzeel, slew two strong men of Moab: he went down also, and slew a lion in the midst of a pit in the time of snow.
21 And he slew an Egyptian a [o]man of great stature, and the Egyptian had a [p]spear in his hand: but he went down to him with a staff, and plucked the spear out of the Egyptian’s hand, and slew him with his own spear.
Exodus also has some comedy that still hits home millennia later
You basically get super elaborate descriptions of dudes killing guys in the most impressive manners, the sections describing the main fighting are essentially bronze age Call of Duty kill cam compilations.
Ajax > your favorite warrior in the Iliad
>Hektor's face when M E G A S T E L A M O N I O S A I A S enters the fray
*ahem*
>Without sounding like a pretentious dickgobbler
you're asking the wrong guy