anon... you're the nocoder for advocating for zig. the language has no reason to exist when you can just use C or C++.
if your argument is that it has better tooling (better build system, cross-compilation, runtime safety features built-in, etc), that is still not good justification for a new language. just like, make better tools for existing languages that people actually use.
zig got only a few things right (overflow semantics with +% etc, pointer alignment encoded in the type, ...) but those things are largely inconsequential when weighing them against the cost of using a language that very few people use.
>make better tools for existing languages that people actually use
lol, 60 years of c and no one told them that yet? you're genius
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
the c tools are not really that bad and they continue to improve YoY though? what are you missing?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
If something new appears that offers an alternative to C tools and gain actual popularity even among C programmers then SOMETHING must be bad about current state of C tools.
lol no
here is a trivial memory unsafe "modern c++" program: https://godbolt.org/z/drob1nsY1
If something new appears that offers an alternative to C tools and gain actual popularity even among C programmers then SOMETHING must be bad about current state of C tools.
visual studio and llvm sanitizers werks for me, i dont need much more (package managers are stupid)
I say this as someone who actually likes Rust. Rust is a horrible C replacement. I think Rust does a better job at replacing managed languages like Java, C#, Scala etc because it gives you bare metal performance while still being able to abstract code but I would never write a driver or OR in Rust. It literally gets in your way.
on the contrary, rust is exactly for those cases. you encapsulate all your unsafe abstractions in a few files that can be easily and thoroughly audited and then you build memory safe code on top of them.
you shouldn't use rust when the excessive friction outweighs the benefits, which is why it's bad for programming software with changing requirements that requires constant iteration. in that case, you should use c/c++ if it's performance critical and managed languages otherwise.
>visual studio and llvm sanitizers werks for me
for ((you)).
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>no, i dont want to use a proper debugger and ide, i will use tools richard stallman personally wrote in the 1980s instead! >why are c tools so bad!!!111!!!!!????
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
If something new appears that offers an alternative to C tools and gain actual popularity even among C programmers then SOMETHING must be bad about current state of C tools.
I say this as someone who actually likes Rust. Rust is a horrible C replacement. I think Rust does a better job at replacing managed languages like Java, C#, Scala etc because it gives you bare metal performance while still being able to abstract code but I would never write a driver or OR in Rust. It literally gets in your way.
I haven't heard anything about Zig since they dropped their llvm compiler, which is expected since now they have a giant burden. Their last release was mid 2023.
Will bun help zig achieve critical mass or zig will cause bun to stall. Although bun may not need help to fail, the better node than node is a bad goal, deno is where it's at.
Bun is completely irrelevant
the Bun guys did some cool things in the javascript space but they miss the point of several key aspects of zig. I would not want to work with a bun developer
TigerBeetle is the more important flagship product but it's a financial database and thus very niche
It needs a game engine or something. Mach looks like a promising alternative to Godot/Raylib etc but it's still very early.
BeefLang is better
why yes i am a Zigger
dont care about airtight memory safety -> use C or
C++
care about airtight memory safety -> use Rust
where does Zig fit in here?
> t. nocoder
However, would fit in the first case. However, has constructs to avoid such mistakes.
anon... you're the nocoder for advocating for zig. the language has no reason to exist when you can just use C or C++.
if your argument is that it has better tooling (better build system, cross-compilation, runtime safety features built-in, etc), that is still not good justification for a new language. just like, make better tools for existing languages that people actually use.
zig got only a few things right (overflow semantics with +% etc, pointer alignment encoded in the type, ...) but those things are largely inconsequential when weighing them against the cost of using a language that very few people use.
wrong. zig is not memory safe.
by the way, have they fixed any of the things mentioned in this talk or no?
>make better tools for existing languages that people actually use
lol, 60 years of c and no one told them that yet? you're genius
the c tools are not really that bad and they continue to improve YoY though? what are you missing?
If something new appears that offers an alternative to C tools and gain actual popularity even among C programmers then SOMETHING must be bad about current state of C tools.
zig is supposed be rust but more c like
Honestly, what does it bring over C++? Comptime seems neat but other than that I don't know.
Rust benefits is cargo + borrow-checker and the second is fixed fully by smart pointers and the first possibly by vcpkg, conan, gentoo/portage/ports.
lol no
here is a trivial memory unsafe "modern c++" program: https://godbolt.org/z/drob1nsY1
visual studio and llvm sanitizers werks for me, i dont need much more (package managers are stupid)
on the contrary, rust is exactly for those cases. you encapsulate all your unsafe abstractions in a few files that can be easily and thoroughly audited and then you build memory safe code on top of them.
you shouldn't use rust when the excessive friction outweighs the benefits, which is why it's bad for programming software with changing requirements that requires constant iteration. in that case, you should use c/c++ if it's performance critical and managed languages otherwise.
>visual studio and llvm sanitizers werks for me
for ((you)).
>no, i dont want to use a proper debugger and ide, i will use tools richard stallman personally wrote in the 1980s instead!
>why are c tools so bad!!!111!!!!!????
I say this as someone who actually likes Rust. Rust is a horrible C replacement. I think Rust does a better job at replacing managed languages like Java, C#, Scala etc because it gives you bare metal performance while still being able to abstract code but I would never write a driver or OR in Rust. It literally gets in your way.
I haven't heard anything about Zig since they dropped their llvm compiler, which is expected since now they have a giant burden. Their last release was mid 2023.
The only thing that blocks 0.12 are release notes.
LLVM is not dropped yet.
It's not nice to lie.
the last zig thread had 11 replies and was all about Jai. The language is DOA when on IQfy Hare has better engagement than Zig
>
you gauge language life by reply count on IQfy? lol
>measuring language popularity by IQfy replies
you can't be that moronic
Hare bros we won
Will bun help zig achieve critical mass or zig will cause bun to stall. Although bun may not need help to fail, the better node than node is a bad goal, deno is where it's at.
Bun is completely irrelevant
the Bun guys did some cool things in the javascript space but they miss the point of several key aspects of zig. I would not want to work with a bun developer
TigerBeetle is the more important flagship product but it's a financial database and thus very niche
It needs a game engine or something. Mach looks like a promising alternative to Godot/Raylib etc but it's still very early.
This, all 3 are relevant for Zig popularity but out of them only Mach (or maaaybe TigerBeetle) will be able to increase number of Zig programmers
zig heil