>as we grow, we strive to suppress our natural senses and perceptions- the same things we work tirelessly to empower
Doesn’t make sense. By your logic, consciousness is unnatural. Psychological heuristics exist for the sole purpose of helping us understand and conquer the environment, so what qualifies you to decide which mental processes are bad or good?
Consciousness is not unnatural, if you want to find truth it very often involves suppressing and/or going around your primal instincts and emotions because they are flawed. For example using measuring tools instead of just eyeballing something.
no its not, platonic philosophy, which is the only genuine philosophy, is exclusively about giving expression to your intuition
you're one to call the entire enterprise of philosophy "primitive and unintelligent"
1 month ago
Anonymous
Platonic philosophy isn't the only genuine philosophy
1 month ago
Anonymous
why else would it have started the entire enterprise of modern philosophy as we know it
1 month ago
Anonymous
Primitive, unintelligent if you still use it as the end all be all and not just an intro and building block to develop further
If Plato were alive today he would not believe the same things, you would probably be mad that he’s a lib or has higher education. He was brilliant, but dealing with limited information
No shit? How else would people come up with the idea of gods or the afterlife, since there's no physical evidence for that? Of course it's a quirk of human neurology, like the monster under your bed.
Humans instinctively believe that the Earth is flat, that the sun revolves around it, that fire flows downwards in tunnels, that the best way to stop aquaplaning is to brake, that all nonempty, totally ordered sets have a maximum and that the equator has the biggest deserts instead of the biggest forests.
>and that the equator has the biggest deserts instead of the biggest forests.
I don't think that's an universal instinct, more like failure of education for northerners.
On the other hand "what is the biggest desert on Earth?" is a common trick question that keeps tripping people up. Antarctica
It's confirmed, monsters under the bed and Santa Claus are real because kids have a tendency to believe in them.
My imaginary friend mister muscle bunny was real afterall, he really could snap carrots with his pinky
>because kids have a tendency to believe in them
where is your source for this claim? I highly doubt those outside the western cultural sphere of influence will even know about santa, especially in the past before the holiday was exported worldwide
I mean this fact is why I think widespread belief in gods is a result of a cognitive bias most people naturally have.
It's super easy and natural for us to anthropomorphize things. Whenever you get frustrated with an inanimate object and hit it or yell at it in frustration you're demonstrating that cognitive bias.
Nietzsche identified the cause of the human predisposition to dualism almost 150 years ago: >In ages of crude, primordial cultures, man thought he could come to know a second real world in dreams: this is the origin of all metaphysics. Without dreams man would have found no occasion to divide the world. The separation into body and soul is also connected to the oldest views about dreams, as is the assumption of a spiritual apparition that is, the origin of all belief in ghosts, and probably also in gods. "The dead man lives on, because he appears to the living man in dreams." So man concluded formerly, throughout many thousands of years.
What age were these “babies”? I remember I believed since I was 3 because my parents believed and brought be to church and talked of the Bible, but I had seeveral doubts early on.
This is what babies actually believe, lol, nothing to do with Christianity or Shitslam:
“ e.g. they start out believing they are god (newborns appear to be solipsistic), and soon believe their parents are gods, because they believe they cause every pain they suffer, that they cause the rain and thunder, that they can cause food or toys to materialize or disintegrate at will, that in fact they control literally every aspect of life and experience. “
I think that the universality of religion in every single society ever before the post-industrial western behavioral sink formed is a good enough reason to think that religion is a natural part of the human condition.
Dualism is a very basic observation that hasn't been proven wrong beyond reasonable doubt. It's obvious that your own consciousness exists, it's reasonable to assume that the outside material world exists due to its stability, and isn't controllable with thought like the "mental world" is. It is fairly reasonable to assume other people are conscious too.
Spirituality is almost like an overcorrection for infant solipsism and lacking object permanence in that you assume non-animal objects have consciousness too, and also mental objects have permanence. Its an *over*correction because of course a lot of it is just ad hoc bullshit.
I thought that was obvious. Humans are predisposed to be magical thinkers. Even most self-professed atheists have illogical superstitions. It's a tool the human mind uses to make sense of the world and fill in logical gaps. Some people just decided to make a theological structure out of it.
>people's deeply held religious beliefs just so happen to follow what their parents told them >holds true in the vast majority of cases
Wow. What a finding. Turns out, if you tell a young kid/baby a bunch of things while their brain is in its "hardwiring in process" phase, it gets hardwired in. Fascinating and truly unexpected.
atheists are too dumb to realize this points towards theism being an evolved behavior rather than the result of communing with an actual deity.
but atheists are fricking moronic.
how can you even know if a baby believes in god
Try to cut off some penis skin, if he's alright with it, then he believes. If he cries, he'll come to believe.
Pretty much all of philosophy, psychology and rational thought is about pursuing facts and logic over instinct and intuition.
>as we grow, we strive to suppress our natural senses and perceptions- the same things we work tirelessly to empower
Doesn’t make sense. By your logic, consciousness is unnatural. Psychological heuristics exist for the sole purpose of helping us understand and conquer the environment, so what qualifies you to decide which mental processes are bad or good?
Consciousness is not unnatural, if you want to find truth it very often involves suppressing and/or going around your primal instincts and emotions because they are flawed. For example using measuring tools instead of just eyeballing something.
That’s primitive and unintelligent.
you're one to call the entire enterprise of philosophy "primitive and unintelligent"
Platonic philosophy isn't the only genuine philosophy
why else would it have started the entire enterprise of modern philosophy as we know it
Primitive, unintelligent if you still use it as the end all be all and not just an intro and building block to develop further
If Plato were alive today he would not believe the same things, you would probably be mad that he’s a lib or has higher education. He was brilliant, but dealing with limited information
no its not, platonic philosophy, which is the only genuine philosophy, is exclusively about giving expression to your intuition
No shit? How else would people come up with the idea of gods or the afterlife, since there's no physical evidence for that? Of course it's a quirk of human neurology, like the monster under your bed.
Consciousness is also a quirk of neurology. Seems more like the angel under my bed
consciousness is memory it's not magic it's your neurons your brain
How do you measure consciousness?
Where are you on this chart?
But that would be a subjective measure, what would be an objective measure of consciousness?
Good question. The answer is it depends on what consciousness is to begin with
The Moldovan Christcuck is STILL seething about this lol
we have a moldovan christcuck? which thread?
He had a big melty about this topic on /misc/
man, I miss all the quality entertainment.
Humans instinctively believe that the Earth is flat, that the sun revolves around it, that fire flows downwards in tunnels, that the best way to stop aquaplaning is to brake, that all nonempty, totally ordered sets have a maximum and that the equator has the biggest deserts instead of the biggest forests.
>and that the equator has the biggest deserts instead of the biggest forests.
I don't think that's an universal instinct, more like failure of education for northerners.
On the other hand "what is the biggest desert on Earth?" is a common trick question that keeps tripping people up. Antarctica
>I don't think that's an universal instinct, more like failure of education for northerners.
It is. That's why schools have to teach otherwise.
What I'm saying is that they probably just got wrong sources rather than wrong instincts.
On the other hand "Earth is more arid above the tropics" is probably counter-intuitive (even if it makes perfect sense if you think about it.)
You're wrong.
>randomly mentions zorn's lemma
Pseud homosexual
This had nothing to do with Zorn's lemma, you absolute Dunning-Kruger homosexual.
No, moron.
it had to with a related (false) statement
Again, pseud
>humans instinctively believe that the earth is flat
>humans instinctly believe in the equator
Only one of those can be true.
It's confirmed, monsters under the bed and Santa Claus are real because kids have a tendency to believe in them.
My imaginary friend mister muscle bunny was real afterall, he really could snap carrots with his pinky
>he really could snap carrots with his pinky
...but pinky will snap your carrot.
Such is the fate of Man. Coom-death. You must, and you will.
>because kids have a tendency to believe in them
where is your source for this claim? I highly doubt those outside the western cultural sphere of influence will even know about santa, especially in the past before the holiday was exported worldwide
Most cultures have "dragons" and other monster.
And? Crocs and monitor lizards exist
Babies don't think the universe exist when you close their eyes. This is why the peekaboo game is hilarious to them.
Babies are 100% correct on that
>christcucks actually lack object permanence
However dumb you think Christians are, they’re still dumber than that.
"Nature herself has imprinted on the minds of all the idea of God."
- Cicero
I mean this fact is why I think widespread belief in gods is a result of a cognitive bias most people naturally have.
It's super easy and natural for us to anthropomorphize things. Whenever you get frustrated with an inanimate object and hit it or yell at it in frustration you're demonstrating that cognitive bias.
>predisposed to cope with death in order to survive
???
Nietzsche identified the cause of the human predisposition to dualism almost 150 years ago:
>In ages of crude, primordial cultures, man thought he could come to know a second real world in dreams: this is the origin of all metaphysics. Without dreams man would have found no occasion to divide the world. The separation into body and soul is also connected to the oldest views about dreams, as is the assumption of a spiritual apparition that is, the origin of all belief in ghosts, and probably also in gods. "The dead man lives on, because he appears to the living man in dreams." So man concluded formerly, throughout many thousands of years.
Proofs?
All philosophy is about just saying random shit without proof
What age were these “babies”? I remember I believed since I was 3 because my parents believed and brought be to church and talked of the Bible, but I had seeveral doubts early on.
This is what babies actually believe, lol, nothing to do with Christianity or Shitslam:
“ e.g. they start out believing they are god (newborns appear to be solipsistic), and soon believe their parents are gods, because they believe they cause every pain they suffer, that they cause the rain and thunder, that they can cause food or toys to materialize or disintegrate at will, that in fact they control literally every aspect of life and experience. “
Science keeps proving Paganism.
>what is the placebo effect and self projection
Your post and nothing else.
need high-res version. too blurry
I think that the universality of religion in every single society ever before the post-industrial western behavioral sink formed is a good enough reason to think that religion is a natural part of the human condition.
>Humans being predisposed to believe in magic means newborns are theists
Theoschizo moment
I Have had problems with magical thinking my entire life
instinctive idea of spirit =/= proof of israeli sky wizard
Yeah some of us develop further
Dualism is a very basic observation that hasn't been proven wrong beyond reasonable doubt. It's obvious that your own consciousness exists, it's reasonable to assume that the outside material world exists due to its stability, and isn't controllable with thought like the "mental world" is. It is fairly reasonable to assume other people are conscious too.
Spirituality is almost like an overcorrection for infant solipsism and lacking object permanence in that you assume non-animal objects have consciousness too, and also mental objects have permanence. Its an *over*correction because of course a lot of it is just ad hoc bullshit.
>hasn't been proven wrong beyond reasonable doubt
that's not the criteria for assuming existence
I thought that was obvious. Humans are predisposed to be magical thinkers. Even most self-professed atheists have illogical superstitions. It's a tool the human mind uses to make sense of the world and fill in logical gaps. Some people just decided to make a theological structure out of it.
babies are born not knowing any better than to shit yourself, that doesn't mean shitting yourself is correct
>"hey kid, is there an afterlife?"
>"after-what?"
>"y know, heaven and hell"
>"y-yeah"
*sketching on clipboard*
>people's deeply held religious beliefs just so happen to follow what their parents told them
>holds true in the vast majority of cases
Wow. What a finding. Turns out, if you tell a young kid/baby a bunch of things while their brain is in its "hardwiring in process" phase, it gets hardwired in. Fascinating and truly unexpected.
Why refer to "gods and the afterlife" and not what it really is, which is a cope about death? Yes, we're all predisposed to cope about death.
>people are naturally superstitious
shocker
>theists have the philosophical understanding of a toddler
seems about right lol
atheists are too dumb to realize this points towards theism being an evolved behavior rather than the result of communing with an actual deity.
but atheists are fricking moronic.