What is terrifying is that in the medieval ages people had more fulfilling lives, not only that people had less hours worked than today, and more freedom to boot. Sure if you wanted to say play chess, or baord games you had to make them yourself, and yet, medieval people worked far more effectively and you could say experienced more of life, in their somewhat shorter life span.
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Don't worry, after the big collapse coming at some point in the next decade or two things will be returning to their natural state.
>natural state.
Lol
>more freedom to boot
hahahahahahahahaha. Literally where in the Medieval world would somebody have more freedom than today? Serfdom is a form of slavery. Middle class city people if occupied with a trade were crushed by the guild system. Even free men in most places had a ridiculously high amount of obligations to state not to mention what can be arbitrary taxation.
There is zero freedom today.
>literally
Literally have a nice day moron
There was zero freedom in the medieval era moron. Working a blue collar job in modern times is an absolutely horrific experience and being a medieval peasant would have been significantly worse in pretty much every way.
You're dramatically overestimating the control a medieval monarch had over their territory. Firstly the overwhelming majority of it was under the control of the noblemen - and although they (mostly) obeyed the kings laws, paid their taxes, and swore loyalty to him he had very little actual control over them in terms of day to day life. For the commoners and other people living under a lord he really didn't give much of a shit about what you did as long as you paid your rent/taxes on time and in full, and didn't cause any trouble.
>For the commoners and other people living under a lord he really didn't give much of a shit about what you did as long as you paid your rent/taxes on time and in full
There is no reason whatsoever to believe this is true when blue collar foremen and landlords in modern "enlightened" societies believe they should be allowed to do things like deliberately engineer scenarios that are intended to maim/mutilate people, starve people, force people to work overtime, force people into unwanted marriages, conspire with the government to use state surveillance apparatus to sabotage relationships and generally harass, threaten and demoralize people, use direct physical violence against people, etc all for the sake of "affirming dominance hierarchies". Modern blue collar foremen and landlords believe that "hierarchy affirming violence" is good, and that demoralizing, humiliating and threatening people into submission is an important part of their role in society.
There is absolutely no reason to believe that people in the medieval era would have behaved better than modern people do. It's almost a guarantee that they were worse. A person probably wouldn't even be able to hold their gaze at the eye level of a reeve or look up from their work in general without being at risk of severe beating, mutilation, maiming, the same would likely happen if you even went for a stroll outside of your allotted plot of land. Life is completely hellish now and it was even worse before. Just read the american bill of rights if you want to know what sorts of things the average person wouldn't have been allowed to do in the medieval era, that document wasn't intended to create a solution to problems that didn't already exist. Every amendment in the bill of rights would have been something that people back then would have experienced routinely, authorities coming into their house and just taking things, being punished for standing in too large of a group on the village green, 1/2
A medieval peasant only had to work 120 days a year, for only a few hours a day.
That's false. But assume it's right it's still shit. Why do you think they had to work? What do you think they got paid?
>Why do you think they had to work?
To eat.
>What do you think they got paid?
They didn't.
Doesn't matter, I'd work 120 days a year for a few hours a day if it meant I could live in a nice peasant's house too and party all day.
>To eat
No they didn't. They worked so they could rent land to further work when their *real* work was done.
Most of your time as a farmer is spent idle and watching the crops grow. They didn’t work because there was nothing else for them to do but sit there and be poor. If they were lucky they could seasonally migrate to the cities and find jobs as wagecucks
Also, the lack of privacy is widely attested too in pre-modern times. You’d be sharing a one room domicile with your entire extended family.
Where are you getting this number from?
>http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/rauch/worktime/hours_workweek.html
>" And they worked only as many days as were necessary to earn their customary income -- which in this case amounted to about 120 days a year."
>"The labouring man will take his rest long in the morning; a good piece of the day is spent afore he come at his work; then he must have his breakfast, though he have not earned it at his accustomed hour, or else there is grudging and murmuring; when the clock smiteth, he will cast down his burden in the midway, and whatsoever he is in hand with, he will leave it as it is, though many times it is marred afore he come again; he may not lose his meat, what danger soever the work is in. At noon he must have his sleeping time, then his bever in the afternoon, which spendeth a great part of the day; and when his hour cometh at night, at the first stroke of the clock he casteth down his tools, leaveth his work, in what need or case soever the work standeth." -Bishop of Durham, 16th century
The context that he is conveniently dropping about farm work is that there are crunch periods where you’re breaking your back from sun up to sun down, and long periods where all the crops are planted and now you just have to wait for them to finish growing in a few months for the harvest. It’s like trying to survive off of a part time job, which is why so many farmers seasonally migrate to the cities to find work
>The context that he is conveniently dropping about farm work is that there are crunch periods where you’re breaking your back from sun up to sun down
False. Even on their hardest work days, the peasants only ever had to work a few hours a day, and it was a very leisurely style of work. No peasant ever had to suffer like we do today.
>Working a blue collar job in modern times is an absolutely horrific experience
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA way to oust yourself as a weak soi homosexual
A modern blue collar worker will work on average 12 times as much as a medieval peasant would work. If that doesn't sound dystopian to you then I don't know what will.
Proof? Cause I'm a blue collared worker and I hardly work over 40 hours a week.
40 hours a week would've been unthinkable to a medieval peasant, your average medieval peasant would've worked, at most, 5 hours a week.
Got a source for that claim?
See
Your own fricking source says peasants in the 13th-14th centuries worked 12 hour days you dumbass.
Nope, see the part below that.
>"The labouring man will take his rest long in the morning; a good piece of the day is spent afore he come at his work; then he must have his breakfast, though he have not earned it at his accustomed hour, or else there is grudging and murmuring; when the clock smiteth, he will cast down his burden in the midway, and whatsoever he is in hand with, he will leave it as it is, though many times it is marred afore he come again; he may not lose his meat, what danger soever the work is in. At noon he must have his sleeping time, then his bever in the afternoon, which spendeth a great part of the day; and when his hour cometh at night, at the first stroke of the clock he casteth down his tools, leaveth his work, in what need or case soever the work standeth." -Bishop of Durham, 16th century
That's like a few hours of work per day at most.
>13th century - Adult male peasant, U.K.: 1620 hours
Calculated from Gregory Clark's estimate of 150 days per family, assumes 12 hours per day, 135 days per year for adult male ("Impatience, Poverty, and Open Field Agriculture", mimeo, 1986)
>14th century - Casual laborer, U.K.: 1440 hours
Calculated from Nora Ritchie's estimate of 120 days per year. Assumes 12-hour day. ("Labour conditions in Essex in the reign of Richard II", in E.M. Carus-Wilson, ed., Essays in Economic History, vol. II, London: Edward Arnold, 1962).
Read your own bullshit before posting
See
Not an argument. You closing your eyes and pretending facts aren't real doesn't make you right. It makes you moronic. But sure keep believing your fantasy and fiction
Reminder you still haven't proven
wrong. Your 5 hour work week has been disproven and you still cower and hide in your delusional vex
You used estimates, I used a firsthand source from someone who witnessed the peasants working, my source is more accurate.
>You used estimates
I used the source you yourself gave me. Don't care about the other crap in your post cause it is asinine
That isn't how sources work, that isn't how they work at all. Academic estimates usually take in a variety of sources from across times and regions in order to create an accurate overview, where as a source like this only captures conditions according to one high ranked person in a single time and place.
>your average medieval peasant would've worked, at most, 5 hours a week.
This homie never worked on a farm let alone in pastoralism before
You've never worked on a medieval farm either.
Yea a Medieval farm where you have to put even more effort in than a modern one. It still takes hours to take care of crops a day. Animals take less effort to take care of and it's still a daily effort and with modern tools it's still relatively the same thing as older ways of doing it.
A medieval farm is a subsistence farm that only has to feed a single family. It's the modern farms with all of our taxes and the need to commercially sell the crops that require too much labor hours.
You've never been on a farm. To grow a chicken it takes multiple fricking months. It takes years for bananas to grow. Even the smallest of crops take forever to fricking grow. There's a reason why apparently fish was popular during medieval times.
Not to forget having to walk to the well, cut grass and burn waste is chores on steroids.
You've never been on a medieval farm.
>being this delusional.
One day you will grow up.
There is plenty of freedom today. The fact you sit in your bedroom in your mum's house all day jerking off doesn't mean you don't have freedom, it means thats what you choose to do with it, and that's all on you, its not SOCIETY's fault, its yours.
>i have the freedom to be an lgbt pot smoking race mixing liberal!!! we have more freedom than ever before!!
Try saying the word Black person. See what happens.
>Try saying the word Black person. See what happens.
You suffer the consequences of your irresponsible behavior. You won’t be arrested for it but you probably will lose your job because nobody wants to associate with your racist ass
Freedom =/= you get to do whatever the frick you want without consequence
>Serfdom is a form of slavery
1. No.
2. Serfs were a smaller proportion of people than you'd think, at least in Western Europe.
Serfs could be bought and sold, they were more or less property of a Lord. Since they were tied to the land when somebody sold that land they would go with it. By modern day standards the UN classifies serfdom as a form of slavery.
Oh yes, the absolute freedom to loiter around in a backwoods hamlet bored out of your mind and utterly broke until the harvest. Throw in a one room shack that you have to share with your entire extended family, and sign me up!
>t.cuckold
>the absolute freedom to loiter around in a backwoods hamlet bored out of your mind and utterly broke until the harvest.
Lazybones detected. You can literally create anything to make people's lives better and make a fortune if you succeed.
>Lazybones detected
Literally the opposite: I like having year round world and getting paid on a weekly basis without having to break my back
>You can literally create anything to make people's lives better and make a fortune if you succeed.
It’s a lot easier to do that when you live in a world where you can take out a business loan and order material from a distributor and ship your product to retailers instead of whatever you can jerry rig out of chopped wood and try to sell to other broke peasants who are also jerry rigging shit out of chopped wood.
>broke peasants
do you have anything to say besides memes?
Sure, I live on a small farm and it’s a great way to keep expenses down and save up for my kid’s college while my day job actually makes me money and keeps my bills paid. I couldn’t imagine trying to live off of it though, I’d be making significantly less money unless I went big and turned my farm into something more like a business, which in the modern day I can go down to the bank and get an agri loan if I felt like it to invest in the technology that would allow me to be competitive with the other large farms in the area. It would be a frickload harder in the pre-modern period where there is no technology and going big means having access to lots of extremely cheap labor, which basically means I’d need to already be chummy with a noble who can secure funding for me, and be okay with another competitor edging in on his margins (in other words, it almost never happens)
t. reddit
wow, this basedjack is literally me
based
Absolute monarchy is another form of state worship and bootlicking just like liberal democracy
Read hoppe
>taxes
I’m fine with higher taxes as long as they pay for things like schools or infrastructure instead of giving pampered dandies in a stone fort another military adventure
>surveillance
Oh yeah, because authoritarian regimes like China don’t give a crap about surveillance
>children
I’d rather have 2 or 3 happy, well adjusted, educated children that I can foster a good relationship with instead of breeding 7 or 8 to be dull farmhands with no future
>vaccination
Your beloved king did nothing to stop the Black Death, even made it worse because of all the peasants that had been dying in the Great famine
>immigration
Don’t care. I’m 3rd generation immigrant myself. I would rather move somewhere that allows me to work instead of consigning me to languish in poverty on a small farm. I don’t have penis envy so “no blacks” wouldn’t be the perk for me that it is for you
>state worship
Black person what do you think “divine right of kings” meant?
>absolute obedience
Yeah, don’t break the law or you will get punished. If you don’t like it, go homestead somewhere in the Siberian wilderness. I also don’t fancy living in a world where armed uprising is the only way to make the government listen.
>
Your taxes serve to pay foreign invaders who want to pillage your country
>
No monarch ever put anyone in jail for saying Black person
>
Your children don't have any more of a future at their desk jobs plus good luck affording more than 2
>
Unfair, wtf could they do about the plague anyways? Plus I'd rather they let us die than poison us with their "vaccine"
>
I'm a "3rd gen immigrant" too, it has nothing to do with immigration but with your country not becoming a 3rd world shithole because it makes more money for the rich that way
>
Same thing as today but at least back then they had religion as an excuse
>
Armed uprising is still the only way to make the government listen and will always be the only way
>Your taxes serve to pay foreign invaders who want to pillage your country
The Roman Empire had the same problem, and Russia is experiencing this problem harder than anywhere in the west
> No monarch ever put anyone in jail for saying Black person
No, they put people in jail for not having the right religion or even remotely speaking out against the government
> Your children don't have any more of a future at their desk jobs plus good luck affording more than 2
Nice projection. My children are doing just fine
> Unfair, wtf could they do about the plague anyways?
>N-n-n-n-nooooo it doesn’t count because… it just doesn’t, okay!
Figures. We have the solution and you still don’t want it.
> becoming a 3rd world shithole
Everywhere was a third world shithole before democracy. I thought you said being a poor subsistence farmer was some kind of ideal?
> Same thing as today but at least back then they had religion as an excuse
It’s not even close to the same thing as a church and state in blatant and open cahoots with each other
> Armed uprising is still the only way to make the government listen and will always be the only way
Ballots are the rightful and peaceful successor to bullets. Especially considering the pre-enlightenment period where you were playing a military game rigged against you
>Ballots are the rightful and peaceful successor to bullets.
It's like elections aren't rigged
They aren’t
Seethe harder, Trumptard. Go be Putin’s b***hboy somewhere else
Hahahahahahhaahaha
I don't live in Somalia so I don't understand what it's like.
>No monarch ever put anyone in jail for saying Black person
Name literally a single time someone was jailed in a liberal democracy for saying Black person. These fantasies only exist in your head.
Giga based. Saved.
>I'm fine with taxes if the government doesn't spend frivolously
lmao
>modern China is basically an absolute monarchy
lmao
>I'd rather the government raise my kids and I just get to be like their friend than them learn a practical trade
lmao
>muh pandemic
lmao
>scared of black kangz wh*te boi?
lmao
>I'M NOT A BOOTLICKER FOR WANTING A BEUROCRACY!
lmao
>just do what the government says but only if it's a bunch of guys with paperwork because they're good listeners, if it's only one guy and he doesn't have paperwork then that's tyranny
lmao
>I'm fine with taxes if the government doesn't spend frivolously
yes, no point in wasting taxdollars so rural morons can LARP as ye warryors off olde. It's just dumping money down the drain
>modern China is basically an absolute monarchy
No, it's a totalitarian system, which is the modern evolution of monarchy, where party appartniks pick the next soveirgn so you don't get the sheer, utter moronation of monarchs putting their idiot sons on the throne
>I'd rather the government raise my kids and I just get to be like their friend than them learn a practical trade
Education is the surest path to personal success. I sure wouldn't want them to end up as poorgays in the trailer park, with lives so bleak they wished they were a medieval peasant
>muh pandemic
By all means, don't get the vaccine. Be a vector. Spread it to all the boomers in your shitty town so they can all die and the rest of us can get to work cleaning up the mess they left behind.
>scared of black kangz wh*te boi?
Oh, but being scared of white kangz is better? You do realize this is a monarcuck thread, right?
>I'M NOT A BOOTLICKER FOR WANTING A BEUROCRACY!
Bureaucracy is what keeps the men wearing boots in check.
>just do what the government says but only if it's a bunch of guys with paperwork because they're good listeners, if it's only one guy and he doesn't have paperwork then that's tyranny
He that does not like civil society on these terms, let him retire and live among savages. He can have no right to the benefits of society, who will not pay his club towards the support of it
The only thing more moronic than the Game of Thrones view of medieval history is the ludicrously romanticized one some people here hold.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat-burning
ugh, the tradcat-burning of medieval europe...
>monarchists
Eddy is such a weird guy, you can't help but love him.
Since he doesn't have power he has to entertain himself somehow.
>monarchist depicts himself as a hyper masculine king
How is this any different from delusional commies who think they would be celebrated party leaders instead of menial suffering laborers
We have ZERO. ZERO fricking idea what living as a medieval peasant was.
FRICKING
ZERO.
Go back to whatever tradlarp hole you crawled out of.
being asked pointed questions that they don't know the answer to with the intention of establishing a justification to punish them, etc. The idea could people could just make things and sell them is such a joke, if someone made anything valuable their lord or reeve or the head of the parish watch or the parish priest or whoever had the slightest authority over them would just take it then have them fined for whatever materials they must have stolen to create it, probably beaten too for good measure. They'd have the "freedom" to walk back and forth between their cottage and the local church every sunday (chaperoned) to hear the priest tell them how worthless they are and that they deserve hell.
I can't imagine how sheltered of a life you would have had to have lived to not understand that humans are absolutely cruel and malicious.
The lords were naturally incentivized to treat their peasants well and prioritize their long-term well-being since their great grandkids would inherit their property and punishments like that are bad for long-term prosperity.
That argument can literally be applied to any system
>communist? They want their great grandchildren to have a successful state bureaucracy, too!
>democracy? Politicians want their great grandchildren to run for office, too!
People in Tudor England were routinely executed for things like singing, playing instruments, dancing, juggling, fencing with wooden sticks, etc. No fun allowed basically. The idea that people were more free in the past is such a complete joke.
>be Swede
>never had serfdom
>farmers had their own estate
>when the king demanded too much the tax collectors/bailiffs would be found dead in the woods
>nobility was powerful enough to constantly switch kings for shits and giggles but never managed to force down serfdom
what's it like being swedish now though
Could be better, could be worse. Not as bad as /misc/tards might make it to be, our shitskins aren't remotely as violent compared to the situation in American cities and you can mostly avoid the worst of them by staying out of the 'ghettos', but its not great.
Ok illiterate zoomer incel whose entire conception of reality is sourced off of image board delusions and memes
>What is terrifying is that in the medieval ages people had more fulfilling lives
How could you possibly know this?
>more freedom to boot.
You couldn't even move without you lord's permission
> medieval people worked far more effectively
What? Efficiency is the entire reason the that life style fell apart. Feudal lords in the early modern period realized it was more cost efficient to use their land for cattle and sheep than for tenant farmers.
> you could say experienced more of life
Its kind of hard to experience more when you never go more than fifteen miles from the place you were born.
Please have a nice day
Thread theme
The question is who are we producing for so many things...
Why can't we live in a fricking farm producing our own food and that's all. Reduce population and it will be enough resources for everyone to live a self-sustaining life.
How utterly servile you are to want so little.
Yeah because being a fricking modern slave all your life because you are not allowed to eat and have a life it's such a great life.
Frick that, I don't understand why do we need to be constantly producing more and more shit, population keeps growing, more resources needed, more competition for less jobs and resources, all your life worried that if you don't have money you can't buy food and pay rent and you will end up on the streets begging for money to be able to eat.
Human life in this way of life is pure shit and it will be more and more pure shit. I don't care if Elon Musk lunches another rocket or if we go to Mars or not, who the fricking cares?, to keep being fricking slaves to companies up there all your life worry because if not you are not allowed to eat? Frick that.
Get a roommate, homosexual. There you have extra money now.
Why the frick are you using a rocket company as an example lmao
>slave in factory bad
>slave on farm good
Lmao ok
It's you own farm moron. You work to produce your own food not for other people to get rich.
Yay I get to eat wheat for my entire life. Meanwhile today I can go to the store and get every plant around the world for my meal.
>make money for someone else
I make my own money and spend it on what I want. Like a diverse diet
Are you moronic? Do you think that you can only grow wheat in your farm? Hahahahaha
Depends on what seeds are available at the time. In ancient times, peasants were given seeds and told how to plant them and how much to grow.
I'm not talking about the medieval age in my case.
We are having a discussion about peasant life in the medieval times. I don't give a shit about your personal farm. Your modern personal farm isn't even comparable to a farm back then no matter how hard you pretend it is.
I don't care either about your discussion, how people lived in the medieval age because they are all fricking dead and neither I care about what you think.
Then leave the thread you dumb poor homosexual.
Ok I leave. You made me sad bro... I'm sorry, *sniff*, *sniff*
>comes to a medieval peasant discussion
>decides to blog post about his poor person life
So do you still not have a refrigerator? Where you are from, how many hours of electricity are you allowed to use before it just goes out?
Well it is definitely limited. If I wanted corn one day and then decided I wanted snow peas that wouldn't happen. Especially since corn isn't native to Europe
They also had to produce food for the local lord as part of their tithe, which is the reason said lord gave them land and protection
>Modern slave
Are you a moron? Are you incapable of getting a job which pays you? Maybe you live in a third world country so begging on the street might be a good option for you.
You're an american citizen. You have the freedom to do whatever the frick you want. You can immigrate to some third world shithole and pay the price of a starbucks order for citizenship. You can buy plots of land there for one month of your rent. You're just too fricking stupid to do anything.
I agree. But life was much harder back then. I mean just imagine falling sick and be in unbearable pain while knowing no one can cure you or relieve you.
They knew for certain they would go to Heaven if they died, unlike people today.
Which is peoples choice they make today. You want to take away their free will?
No they didn't, many were gripped by fear of if they would go to heaven over the slightest shit, hell being certain of it is considered a grave sin to some
What "sins" would your average peasant have committed? They lived in large families and lived simple, humble lives, they weren't tempted by sin and degeneracy on every street corner like people today.
You do know prostitutes existed, and that people had pre martial sex still, or the high murder rate, or the fact that depending on region it would be easy to be a drunk
Prostitutes were mostly a city phenomenon, your average peasant wouldn't have been exposed to prostitutes.
What "crimes" would a peasant have possibly committed? They have no reason to do crime, they have all that they need in life, they have the fear of Hell to keep them from doing crime, and they respect the authorities as appointed by God.
>and they respect the authorities as appointed by God
So you deny the fact that highwaymen amd bandits existed. Interesting. What other delusions do you have about medieval life. Do you think they bathed regularly too? Another fun fact. When they did bathe they shared the same bathwater. So if you had a big family and were the last one to bathe. You bathed in your families filth.
There might have been the occasional bandit, but these were very rare.
Right, because police records were so accurate in the middle ages that you have sources to back up that claim and aren't just conjecturing, huh?
Nobody wanted to mess with knights on horseback. Being a criminal back then was much more dangerous than today.
5 or 6 highwaymen ambushing a knight could easily take them down, and most people on the road in medieval times were not knights, they were normies and traveling merchants who were utterly helpless.
The original "robber barons" literally refers to knights on the Rhine who were allowed to rape and pillage their countryside and the king refused to address the issue because he might need them in his next war
>occasional bandit
Occasional my ass. When you broke the law you either lost everything or you became a criminal. There was no hope of rehabilitation so just about everyone became a career criminal. It was such a problem even in the Roman Empire that being killed or robbed by bandits was treated like natural causes.
>crime didn't exist in medieval times
To say you are sinless is a sin dumbass
Daily reminder to feudalgays that the only free parts of the Medieval World were Chartered Cities and Free City States, where burghers lived outside of the feudal system, were legally different people than serfs & peasants, and lived lives greatly resembling our own.
And even then theirs is a hard world especially during wartime as- bereft of the protection of knights n shiet- citizens had to arm themselves as militia and went toe to toe vs knights/mercs
>bathing was done at the well
Congratulations you just contaminated that wells water.
>grocery store
A modern amenity that is 1000x better than your medieval farm.
>a rural town is exactly like a medieval town
No you dumb moron. Rural towns still have access to electricity and running water and other modern amenities.
Yeah. I had electricity wiring. No running water. Sorry, not rural town. I mean legitimate sticks in the boonies with one road. There was room for pipes underneath the road but there weren't any. Electric posts were up though.
>most of what I ate was canned goods.
Thats your choice
>no fridge
Lmao you're poor. You're basically a peasant already
>Were there laws or unwritten rules regarding well cleanliness?
Probably common courtesy related rules
Don't shit in the well probably number 1
I support Monarchy so far I am the king. Make me King and kneel before me you cucks.Its not like Monarch blood was something special why not just make someone like me a Monarch?