>Some of his maternal grandmother's ancestors were colonists in Singapore, Indonesia, and Malaysia, including Francis James Bernard, the founder of the first Singapore Police Force in 1819. The Singapore Chronicle, the first newspaper in Singapore, was established with Bernard as owner, publisher and editor in 1824 and he opened up Katong, now a densely populated residential enclave, by being the first cultivating a coconut estate there in 1823. Bernard had married in 1818 Trudeau's 4th great-grandmother Esther Farquhar, eldest daughter of Scotsman William Farquhar, a noted colonial leader of Singapore, by Farquhar's first wife, Antoinette « Nonio » Clement, daughter of a French father and an ethnic Malaccan mother, which makes Trudeau the first Canadian prime minister to have verified non-European ancestry.
ancient macedonians were as greek as samnites were roman
actually even less than that. Macedonians were a lot more similar to thracians
modern brown wienerroach greekoids should just unite with turkey into a Kayser-i Rum with sultan Erdogan, that's what they are >we wuz socrates n shieet
alexander would consider modern greeks to be some semitic trbe from the arabic peninsula
2 years ago
Anonymous
Except contemporary sources are unanimous that ancient Greeks were swarthy as frick.
2 years ago
Anonymous
ancient macedonians weren't greeks and if they had survived the roman empire they would have opposed both romans and 'greeks' because they were fundamentally their own thing
if all slavs fricking got btfo'd one day and then 2000 years later some rapebabbies claimed they were slavs would that mean they get to inherit all slav history of all the states that ever were slav
that's 'modern greeks'
please leave the thread, this thread is about macedonia
2 years ago
Anonymous
>ancient macedonians weren't greeks
So how come they spoke Greek and participated in the Olympics?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>if they had survived the roman empire
It's literally the biggest mystery to me how they fell into irrelevance and completely disappeared just 200 years after Alexander
2 years ago
Anonymous
They didn't really, the Hellenistic period in the middle east is the direct result of Alexander's conquest. The Romans just absorbed the Macedonian elite into their state.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>ancient macedonians weren't greeks
Correct, they were Grecoids, not Slavs.
>Noooooo you can't claim the ancient Macedonians even though they clearly weren't Greek and spoke an unknown language. Nooooo! You're Slavs who migrated to the Balkans in the 500s (even though you're all Haplogroup I2 not R1a)!!!!
macedonian nationalism started during the communist era just like many other artificially constructed nationalities in other socialist polities. There was no such thing as "macedonian" identity if you look up the history of the region.
Nobody call themselves tuscans. The region is named after the etruscans, just like how macedonia is named after the ancient macedonians. There is no cultural or ethnic continuation between the ancient inhabitants and the modern ones.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>There is no cultural or ethnic continuation between the ancient inhabitants and the modern ones.
2 years ago
Anonymous
There is
But monkeydonians do not inhabit the lands of ancient macedon
2 years ago
Anonymous
The moronic thing about Macedonism is that the country called "Macedonia" was barely even in ancient Macedonia, which was almost entirely in modern day Greece.
they wrote this instead >In the year 6523 since the creation of the world [1015/1016? CE], this fortress, built and made by Ivan, Tsar of Bulgaria, was renewed with the help and the prayers of Our Most Holy Lady and through the intercession of her twelve supreme Apostles. The fortress was built as a haven and for the salvation of the lives of the Bulgarians. The work on the fortress of Bitola commenced on the twentieth day of October and ended on the [...] This Tsar was Bulgarian by birth, grandson of the pious Nikola and Ripsimia, son of Aaron, who was brother of Samuil, Tsar of Bulgaria, the two who routed the Greek army of Emperor Basil II at Stipon where gold was taken [...] and in [...] this Tsar was defeated by Emperor Basil in 6522 (1014) since the creation of the world in Klyutch and died at the end of the summer.
Not really, during the kingdom of yugoslavia the IMRO was primarely an organization with the aim of having the region annexed by bulgaria, if i recall correctly there were some individuals that wanted it to be fully independant, but they were a minority and the most influential individuals considered themselves as bulgarian.
Only when Tito came into play and reformed the country the macedonian identity started gaining more momentum.
Any reason why we can't just say Macedon was Hellenic instead of Greek? That way greeks can say that he wasn't greek but Macedonians can claim that he was of their culture. Whatever way you split it though in terms of achievements, Philip (his dad) was far more impressive.
What is the distinction between Greek and Hellenic in your analysis?
If Macedon wasn't Greek they wouldn't have been allowed to participate in the Olympics, but we know they did even before Alexander.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Wouldn't you have to suppose that only Greeks can compete in the Olympic games for it to be a meaningful distinction on your part? I'd argue Greek encompasses those who were involved thoroughly within the Peloponnesian war, as Macedon was still fledgling for a good portion of time after it. Ultimately Hellenic in my mind would derive those that draw their founding myths from The Odyssey & Iliad (it's where Hellene/Hellenic name comes from).
2 years ago
Anonymous
Not him but it is a known fact that ONLY GREEKS could compete in the Olympic games. >I'd argue >In my mind
It doesn't matter what you think, we know what ancient Greeks thought on this topic.
2 years ago
Anonymous
he asked for my opinion/analysis. If he wanted an academic rebuttal then he's on the wrong website. It's also a known fact that ONLY HELLENIC peoples could compete in the Olympic games
2 years ago
Anonymous
Why are you being so difficult? Hellenic = Greek. It's the same thing. Greeks call themselves Hellenes. Hellenic = Greek.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Hellenic culture echoed throughout Roman civilization, they were thoroughly Hellenic yet distinctly Roman at the same time. They're not the same thing
2 years ago
Anonymous
They are the same thing. Hellenistic/Hellenism is not the same thing as Hellenic.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Because that's how the ancient Greeks themselves explicitly defined participation in the Olympics, for freeborn Greeks only, no non Greeks allowed. >Ultimately Hellenic in my mind would derive those that draw their founding myths from The Odyssey & Iliad
As the Macedonians did. The Macedonians claimed their origin lay in the south of Greece on Argos, which is why Alexander's dynasty were called the Argeads, and they claimed Temenus as their progenitor. In this way the Argeads still traced their origin to the Peloponnesian war.
Within these parameters AT BEST you could argue Alexander and his family were Greeks ruling over Hellenised barbarians, but even that's flimsy.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Fair mate, would you hold Romans or Illyrians to the same standard as you do the Macedonians? Or is the Olympic games the true defining line of what is Greek and what isn't?
2 years ago
Anonymous
I'd use "Hellenism" to describe the religion and "Greek" to describe the ethnic group to avoid any confusion and no I would not describe the Romans or Illyrians as Greek. >Or is the Olympic games the true defining line of what is Greek and what isn't?
Nationality is a complex thing but I'd say the broad defining line is a combination language, customs and historical origin. The participants of the Olympics were already considered Greek before they were Olympians, it's just that their participation demonstrates that contemporary Greeks saw them as fellow Greeks and that they themselves identified as such.
2 years ago
Anonymous
If you don't describe the Illyrrians as Greek and yet use the Olympics to validate the Macedonians, then how do you reconcile Cleosthenes of Epidamnus or Cleosthenes the Illyrian, the Olympic winner?
He was called Cleosthenes the Illyrian though, where the Greeks who let him participate wrong?
2 years ago
Anonymous
The Romans also called Scipio "the African" despite the fact he was from Rome and not even ethnically African. Unless there's some source on this guy's life story we can reasonably he's called that because he's from Illyria, namely a Greek colony in Illyria.
Adulthood is realizing that every single south Balkan shithole is we wuzzing
Bulgaria: Thracian-Slav-Turks speaking Slavic LARPing as Tatar Bulgaria we wuz Khan Kubrat Dulo Böri n sheet
Greece: Roman orthodox Turks and vlachs and Slavs LARPING as we wuz Achilles n sheet
In both cases bc the foreign glowies who set them up decided to use their high iq Oxford trained history degree to find a historical empire or entity in the area for the new vassal to LARP as
>bulgarians are wewuzzing as bulgarians
yes
1000+ without a name change, the larp never changed so it's not a real larp >inb4 language is slavic
the slavs, vlachs, cumans, thracians etc. all contributed and bulgarized themselves and became a part of the mutt melting pot
Boris I a bulgar ruler literally enforced OCS and had the cyrillic alphabet invented
was he wewuzzing as a slav
europeans seeing their own children dragged into drag queen story hour, cities filled with muslims, LGBT and BLM propaganda on their football matches, and their worries in life are still petty, meaningless disputes about regions no one cares about
Did Alexander the Great look like THAT?
>Some of his maternal grandmother's ancestors were colonists in Singapore, Indonesia, and Malaysia, including Francis James Bernard, the founder of the first Singapore Police Force in 1819. The Singapore Chronicle, the first newspaper in Singapore, was established with Bernard as owner, publisher and editor in 1824 and he opened up Katong, now a densely populated residential enclave, by being the first cultivating a coconut estate there in 1823. Bernard had married in 1818 Trudeau's 4th great-grandmother Esther Farquhar, eldest daughter of Scotsman William Farquhar, a noted colonial leader of Singapore, by Farquhar's first wife, Antoinette « Nonio » Clement, daughter of a French father and an ethnic Malaccan mother, which makes Trudeau the first Canadian prime minister to have verified non-European ancestry.
>Castro is related to Alexander
As if he couldn't be any more based.
Are there any portraits of Alexander created during his life or shortly after?
Copy of a Greek original. Though autists on this board will deny this to their death bed because he's not some meme blonde heterochromia Aryan alien
ancient macedonians were as greek as samnites were roman
actually even less than that. Macedonians were a lot more similar to thracians
modern brown wienerroach greekoids should just unite with turkey into a Kayser-i Rum with sultan Erdogan, that's what they are
>we wuz socrates n shieet
alexander would consider modern greeks to be some semitic trbe from the arabic peninsula
Except contemporary sources are unanimous that ancient Greeks were swarthy as frick.
ancient macedonians weren't greeks and if they had survived the roman empire they would have opposed both romans and 'greeks' because they were fundamentally their own thing
if all slavs fricking got btfo'd one day and then 2000 years later some rapebabbies claimed they were slavs would that mean they get to inherit all slav history of all the states that ever were slav
that's 'modern greeks'
please leave the thread, this thread is about macedonia
>ancient macedonians weren't greeks
So how come they spoke Greek and participated in the Olympics?
>if they had survived the roman empire
It's literally the biggest mystery to me how they fell into irrelevance and completely disappeared just 200 years after Alexander
They didn't really, the Hellenistic period in the middle east is the direct result of Alexander's conquest. The Romans just absorbed the Macedonian elite into their state.
>ancient macedonians weren't greeks
Correct, they were Grecoids, not Slavs.
when the russians decided it was a thing.
When the monkeys decided to larp as greek.
His throat look very slicable
353 or 352 BC
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Crocus_Field
>Leaders
>Philip II of Macedon
>Born
>Pella, Macedon (modern-day Pella, Greece)
Uhhh.... Slavbros?
funny part is greeks have tons of slavic blood
no they dont lol
slavs have tons of paleo-bakanicblood
every other greek person looks slavic my guy and everyone in greece has slavic blood.
''slavic''
>look slavic
OK moron
>Noooooo you can't claim the ancient Macedonians even though they clearly weren't Greek and spoke an unknown language. Nooooo! You're Slavs who migrated to the Balkans in the 500s (even though you're all Haplogroup I2 not R1a)!!!!
>Noooooo you can't claim the ancient Macedonians even though they clearly weren't Greek and spoke an unknown language. Nooooo
lol
So if someone finds a Latin book from 1400s Germany that means Germans were Latin speakers?
Just embrace anschluss with Bulgaria, bro. It is Macedonia's only hope of ever being even regionally relevant.
Macedonia has been so busy raging at Greece they failed to notice that Albanians invaded and occupy half their country.
>haplomemes should define your identity
You realise most Yugoslavs are l2?
>spoke south slav language but somehow related to Norse
It's because everywhere in Europe used to be L haplogroup, the rest all migrated later.
macedonian nationalism started during the communist era just like many other artificially constructed nationalities in other socialist polities. There was no such thing as "macedonian" identity if you look up the history of the region.
>they didnt write it down. that means macedonians aren't the descendants of macedonians.
Should central italians rename themselves to etruscans because they inhabit the region of a former civilization that no longer exists?
You mean Tuscans?
Nobody call themselves tuscans. The region is named after the etruscans, just like how macedonia is named after the ancient macedonians. There is no cultural or ethnic continuation between the ancient inhabitants and the modern ones.
>There is no cultural or ethnic continuation between the ancient inhabitants and the modern ones.
There is
But monkeydonians do not inhabit the lands of ancient macedon
The moronic thing about Macedonism is that the country called "Macedonia" was barely even in ancient Macedonia, which was almost entirely in modern day Greece.
Unironically yeah, cultural revival is incredibly based
they wrote this instead
>In the year 6523 since the creation of the world [1015/1016? CE], this fortress, built and made by Ivan, Tsar of Bulgaria, was renewed with the help and the prayers of Our Most Holy Lady and through the intercession of her twelve supreme Apostles. The fortress was built as a haven and for the salvation of the lives of the Bulgarians. The work on the fortress of Bitola commenced on the twentieth day of October and ended on the [...] This Tsar was Bulgarian by birth, grandson of the pious Nikola and Ripsimia, son of Aaron, who was brother of Samuil, Tsar of Bulgaria, the two who routed the Greek army of Emperor Basil II at Stipon where gold was taken [...] and in [...] this Tsar was defeated by Emperor Basil in 6522 (1014) since the creation of the world in Klyutch and died at the end of the summer.
It didn't start in the Kingdom of Yugoslavia?
Not really, during the kingdom of yugoslavia the IMRO was primarely an organization with the aim of having the region annexed by bulgaria, if i recall correctly there were some individuals that wanted it to be fully independant, but they were a minority and the most influential individuals considered themselves as bulgarian.
Only when Tito came into play and reformed the country the macedonian identity started gaining more momentum.
Like ehat nationalaties?
Moldovans
Montenegrins
Kosovans
Ukrainians
Belarusians
Slavs are basically white Blacks, therefore they behave like Blacks.
We wuz Macedonian n sheet
Around 800 BC, according to Herodotus.
With Tito of course, the founding father of FYROM.
When they realized they were too pussy to say "Albanians out of Macedonia".
Any reason why we can't just say Macedon was Hellenic instead of Greek? That way greeks can say that he wasn't greek but Macedonians can claim that he was of their culture. Whatever way you split it though in terms of achievements, Philip (his dad) was far more impressive.
Because history isn't investigated by coming up with the best compromise for preserving everyone's ego.
It's not a compromise if it's true. Alexander wasn't greek but he (and Macedon) were Hellenic.
What is the distinction between Greek and Hellenic in your analysis?
If Macedon wasn't Greek they wouldn't have been allowed to participate in the Olympics, but we know they did even before Alexander.
Wouldn't you have to suppose that only Greeks can compete in the Olympic games for it to be a meaningful distinction on your part? I'd argue Greek encompasses those who were involved thoroughly within the Peloponnesian war, as Macedon was still fledgling for a good portion of time after it. Ultimately Hellenic in my mind would derive those that draw their founding myths from The Odyssey & Iliad (it's where Hellene/Hellenic name comes from).
Not him but it is a known fact that ONLY GREEKS could compete in the Olympic games.
>I'd argue
>In my mind
It doesn't matter what you think, we know what ancient Greeks thought on this topic.
he asked for my opinion/analysis. If he wanted an academic rebuttal then he's on the wrong website. It's also a known fact that ONLY HELLENIC peoples could compete in the Olympic games
Why are you being so difficult? Hellenic = Greek. It's the same thing. Greeks call themselves Hellenes. Hellenic = Greek.
Hellenic culture echoed throughout Roman civilization, they were thoroughly Hellenic yet distinctly Roman at the same time. They're not the same thing
They are the same thing. Hellenistic/Hellenism is not the same thing as Hellenic.
Because that's how the ancient Greeks themselves explicitly defined participation in the Olympics, for freeborn Greeks only, no non Greeks allowed.
>Ultimately Hellenic in my mind would derive those that draw their founding myths from The Odyssey & Iliad
As the Macedonians did. The Macedonians claimed their origin lay in the south of Greece on Argos, which is why Alexander's dynasty were called the Argeads, and they claimed Temenus as their progenitor. In this way the Argeads still traced their origin to the Peloponnesian war.
Within these parameters AT BEST you could argue Alexander and his family were Greeks ruling over Hellenised barbarians, but even that's flimsy.
Fair mate, would you hold Romans or Illyrians to the same standard as you do the Macedonians? Or is the Olympic games the true defining line of what is Greek and what isn't?
I'd use "Hellenism" to describe the religion and "Greek" to describe the ethnic group to avoid any confusion and no I would not describe the Romans or Illyrians as Greek.
>Or is the Olympic games the true defining line of what is Greek and what isn't?
Nationality is a complex thing but I'd say the broad defining line is a combination language, customs and historical origin. The participants of the Olympics were already considered Greek before they were Olympians, it's just that their participation demonstrates that contemporary Greeks saw them as fellow Greeks and that they themselves identified as such.
If you don't describe the Illyrrians as Greek and yet use the Olympics to validate the Macedonians, then how do you reconcile Cleosthenes of Epidamnus or Cleosthenes the Illyrian, the Olympic winner?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympic_winners_of_the_Archaic_period
Epidamnos was a Greek colony.
He was called Cleosthenes the Illyrian though, where the Greeks who let him participate wrong?
The Romans also called Scipio "the African" despite the fact he was from Rome and not even ethnically African. Unless there's some source on this guy's life story we can reasonably he's called that because he's from Illyria, namely a Greek colony in Illyria.
Greeks had plenty of colonies in Illyria
When they conquered greeks in the 4th century
How do Macedonians cope with the fact that they speak Bulgarian?
How do you cope that we conquered and ruled you for centuries?
I know you did, it was a pretty cool empire.
That thing does not represent anything more than his local support group for impotent losers.
Why do Slavs thugs insist on impersonating Macedonians. Just rename the fricking country already.
Adulthood is realizing that every single south Balkan shithole is we wuzzing
Bulgaria: Thracian-Slav-Turks speaking Slavic LARPing as Tatar Bulgaria we wuz Khan Kubrat Dulo Böri n sheet
Greece: Roman orthodox Turks and vlachs and Slavs LARPING as we wuz Achilles n sheet
In both cases bc the foreign glowies who set them up decided to use their high iq Oxford trained history degree to find a historical empire or entity in the area for the new vassal to LARP as
>bulgarians are wewuzzing as bulgarians
yes
1000+ without a name change, the larp never changed so it's not a real larp
>inb4 language is slavic
the slavs, vlachs, cumans, thracians etc. all contributed and bulgarized themselves and became a part of the mutt melting pot
Boris I a bulgar ruler literally enforced OCS and had the cyrillic alphabet invented
was he wewuzzing as a slav
europeans seeing their own children dragged into drag queen story hour, cities filled with muslims, LGBT and BLM propaganda on their football matches, and their worries in life are still petty, meaningless disputes about regions no one cares about
Macedonians are just larping Bulgarians
>tfw Avar slaves unironically think they're native to the Balkans